Author Topic: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded  (Read 7067 times)

Offline BaDkaRmA158Th

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F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« on: February 22, 2013, 06:24:47 PM »
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 08:17:10 PM »
Why can't they just modify the F-22 to meet JSF standards, at least in part.

R&D of the airframe was already done, biggest problem so far seems to be a crappy air system, which could be fixed. Tooling for production probably ready to go for the most part.

Who cares if it doesn't have STOL capabilities, we've done without till now. Better stealth from the get-go, super cruise, better maneuverability.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Scherf

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 08:52:11 PM »
Maybe thay can borrow some of that Iranian stealth technology.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline nrshida

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 09:05:47 PM »
This plane is a terrible design solution. How can so much money and human resources and experience be poured down the toilet so comprehensively?  :rolleyes:

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Offline rpm

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 09:11:32 PM »
Why can't they just modify the F-22 to meet JSF standards, at least in part.

Who cares if it doesn't have STOL capabilities, we've done without till now.
You answered your own question about trying to adapt F-22's. No VTOL capability. As for who cares and uses it, that would be the Marines.
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Offline Weirdguy

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 09:37:51 PM »
And the Brits.  They're not building two super carriers just so they can fly helicopters from them.  I'm also pretty sure they're not going to want to buy any French made Rafale-M's for the Fleet Air Arm.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 09:47:17 PM »
You answered your own question about trying to adapt F-22's. No VTOL capability. As for who cares and uses it, that would be the Marines.

Point is that at some point, costs and delays make it not worth the effort.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Scherf

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 10:41:59 PM »
How can so much money and human resources and experience be poured down the toilet so comprehensively?  :rolleyes:



Because that's the Lockheed way.
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline JunkyII

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2013, 12:38:07 AM »
Because that's the Lockheed way.
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Offline rpm

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 01:40:50 AM »
Point is that at some point, costs and delays make it not worth the effort.
The concurrency production strategy is what's causing the cost and delays.
http://news.yahoo.com/f-35-warplane-costs-driven-production-choice-u-002357318.html
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Offline GScholz

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2013, 02:29:37 AM »
This plane is a terrible design solution. How can so much money and human resources and experience be poured down the toilet so comprehensively?  :rolleyes:



Because you are privy to the F-35 design process? How can a cracked turbine blade somehow be the fault of Lockheed Martin's design solution?
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Offline nrshida

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2013, 02:57:49 AM »
Because you are privy to the F-35 design process? How can a cracked turbine blade somehow be the fault of Lockheed Martin's design solution?

If only the turbine blade was the only problem...

Actually the design process which includes the competition has been pretty transparent if you cared to follow it.

Anyone, even non-designers, can appraise a design and can (and should) be critical. Certainly with aircraft design there is specific knowledge which is inaccessible to ordinary designers and people, but you can see dubious design decisions at a much more fundamental level than this.

My impression is it has become a business / political venture which has lost the focus on the product to a disastrous extent.


Do you think the aircraft is a good solution GScholz?


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Offline GScholz

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 04:05:38 AM »
Yes. The F-35 is a very advanced aircraft, and it has had a great deal of development problems, but the same arguments where made when the F-16 program went seriously over-budget in the late '70s. I remember all the news drama and whining politicians, and I find it amusing, if a bit tragic, to see the same thing all over again today. What most people don't realize is that initial acquisition cost is not very important; what air forces and governments look at is life-cycle costs. An acquisition cost of $100 million, $200 million or $300 million becomes almost irrelevant when the impact of those differences on the full life-cycle costs is minimal. Operating contemporary fighter aircraft is hugely expensive; comparing the F-16 Block 60, F-18E and F-35 the differences in life-cycle cost are essentially all within a 10 percent variance.

The media, and consequently public opinion, has not been kind to the F-35, but neither were they to the F-16 back in the day. The F-16 has been the milk cow of the U.S. military aircraft industry since the 1980's with more than 4,500 units delivered, and still is with production continuing at least until 2016. I have no doubt the F-35 will match, or even exceed the F-16's success.
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Offline danny76

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 04:24:06 AM »
The most glaring issue that I can see is that f-22/35 and the like are simply technical exercises. Why do the US need to have a new and stealthy air superiority fighter? Or the UK with the Typhoon, a pointless piece of crap however beautiful it is, because we have no one to fight with it.  Are we gearing up for an air war with China? Otherwise I doubt tge Taliban are about to launch their new F15 killer anytime soon.
We scrapped the most versatile and potent close support aircraft ever made with the Harrier. I guarantee you the troops on the ground would take Harriers every time over Typhoons or the fragile F35.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: F-35 Fighters Are Grounded
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 04:46:26 AM »
...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 05:00:52 AM by GScholz »
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