Pe-2

[Zacherof]

Please????? Along with the ki-43??

[SmokinLoon]

I agree that it is a very important plane in the Soviet plane set, however have you seen its capabilities?  It's "strength" was in which the way it was used: in massed quantities. Individually, it was rather lackluster in comparison.  It would be similar to having the B25H, but armed only with (according to 1 source) only 2 MG's of .30 or .50 caliber in the front and a single MG or either caliber in the rear dorsal for defense.

I think the Soviet plane set would be better served by adding the IL-4 (DB-3), that was their most produced level bomber throughout the war and it could carry up to 6000 lbs of various ordnance.  It appears though that a 5000 lb bomb package was most common.  It was classified as a long range medium bomber.   

[Greebo]

The Il-4 would see very little use in any of the MAs as there are more capable level bombers even in EW. So its introduction would be more scenario related. However after many Il-4s were slaughtered by the LW early in Barbarossa it was used increasingly at night as the war went on. The Pe-2 was used by day throughout the war, so would be a better scenario ride overall IMO. Its speed would make it a much more survivable aircraft in the EW MA and in scenarios, but either aircraft is doomed vs fighter opposition in the LW MA. The Pe-2 also has dive brakes, although IIRC they were usually locked closed in service.

[Karnak]

The Pe-2 would also see little use in the MA as its bomb load was quite light for AH use.

The best combo from an AH centric standpoint would probably be the Il-4 and Tu-2.  Ideally we'd get the Il-4, Pe-2 and Tu-2 though.

[Tilt]

I dont see the role of the IL4 in either scenarios or main arenas. As said the IL4 was used as a strategic night time bomber by the VVS. There was not a lot of this in the GPW compared to other theatres. So with scenarios like Kursk, Stalingrad, Bagration (again) still outstanding I would much rather see the VVS tactical (attack force) increased which would put emphasis on the Pe-2 and Tu-2.

Pe-2 dispenced with dive brakes after about 1943. 

If you want to make it more popular in the MA then you allow it (and the IL2) to dive in line astern formations which is what they did very often. (look up Polbin attack formation) the attack was conducted with each AC able to defend the tail of its partner. It would also go some way to represent the type of Pe2/Il2 attack which was usually from massed formations as well as representng the massive numbers produced and present at the front lines.

[icepac]

LOL at people saying they know which planes will be hangar queens when they have never flown in a sim that features said plane.

Some of us have been flying the PE2 for a decade in other sims.

It get's used quite a bit.........most likely because it is the closest thing to a Me110 you can get with a proper bombsight.

[Karnak]

It get's used quite a bit.........most likely because it is the closest thing to a Me110 you can get with a proper bombsight.

I don't see a particular draw there.

Also, Mosquito Mk IV, Mk IX, Mk XVI and Tu-2.  The meager forward guns on the Pe-2 don't significantly differentiate it from the unarmed Mossie bombers.

Wikipedia says the Pe-2 had a 1600kg payload.  Is that accurate?

[Wmaker]

I think the Soviet plane set would be better served by adding the IL-4 (DB-3), that was their most produced level bomber throughout the war

Well, Pe-2 did have a level bomb sight as well, although they were mainly used as dive bombers. ~6800 DB-3/Il-4s were produced (160 built after the war) while VVS received a total of 10574 Pe-2s.

I dont see the role of the IL4 in either scenarios or main arenas. As said the IL4 was used as a strategic night time bomber by the VVS. There was not a lot of this in the GPW compared to other theatres. So with scenarios like Kursk, Stalingrad, Bagration (again) still outstanding I would much rather see the VVS tactical (attack force) increased which would put emphasis on the Pe-2 and Tu-2.

Considering how much they had Il-4s I find it a bit hard to believe that they wouldn't be much use in scenarios. I guess it depends on the point of view. Il-4 was the most numerous Soviet bomber in the 4th Strategic offensive against Finland for example. That said, I too would pick Pe-2 over Il-4 but I still see Il-4 as a very useful addition.

A side note, just noticed that there's a Continuation War setup going in SEC. They are using Boston III as the Soviet bomber. None of the fighters given to Finland can catch it below 12k.

[Tilt]

A side note, just noticed that there's a Continuation War setup going in SEC. They are using Boston III as the Soviet bomber. None of the fighters given to Finland can catch it below 12k.

Well if this is to re create the VVS bombing campaign on the Karelian front during June 41 to September 41 would not the Pe-2 still be the more representative or the Su-2? (re skinned SBD?)

At that time the DB3 was being eaten up by the LW offensive (only 180 left by late 41)

[Wmaker]

Well if this is to re create the VVS bombing campaign on the Karelian front during June 41 to September 41 would not the Pe-2 still be the more representative or the Su-2? (re skinned SBD?)

At that time the DB3 was being eaten up by the LW offensive (only 180 left by late 41)

In the first frame Soviets are tasked to bomb Viipuri which was in Soviet hands in the beginning of the Continuation War so...I was just making a general comment regarding the playability of the plane set. In the very beginning of the Continuation War Soviets actually used several hundred unescorted bombers (SB-2s and DB-3s) to bomb targets in the Southern Finland. This went on for couple of days. Finns shot down 27 bombers without losses and the bombings stopped. Probably partly due to the losses but mostly because they had other things to worry about. As you know in August DB-3s were used to bomb Berlin.

At the very beginning of the Barbarossa I've understood that the biggest bomber losses were suffered by SB-2s (destroyed on the ground/over run, etc.) as DB-3s were further away from the German advance largely due to their longer range.

As for your question, Pe-2 certainly wouldn't be an appropriate bomber in the beginning of the Continuation War. Il-4 would be the best compromise as it has more useful generally compared to the DB-3. Incidentally Finns did have trouble intercepting solitary Pe-2s with their slow fighters, but those Pe-2 were used for recon.

Il-4 were actually used in 'tactical' role by the ADD where they bombed the German side of the front before Soviet ground offensives. Admittedly this was done usually at night time.