An interesting fix for high alt, high speed bombers

[DarkHawk]

You want all buff to fly at max cruise, then allow the buff to have any gun that can point at the attacking target fire at any range from 1000 yards to point blank, then I agree
The b17 does not have wep, it has three settings 2500 rpm , 2300 rpm( better fuel range) and 2100 rpm (max fuel range). You can adjust the manifold pressure in any of the ranges for better or worst fuel range. You want to know how to attack buffs contact snailman, he is one of the hardest to kill when attacking a buff, unless he gets greedy.
DHawk

[icepac]

I think  the speeds of undamaged planes are fine but the drones should not be able to maintain formation with a dead engine unless the formation leader slows as well.

A few more of the many planes that can catch B29 at 30,000 feet.

mossie fighter

C205

yak9u

bf110g

F4U4 and F4u1a

I do know that a I16 at 37,000 feet cannot chase down a b29 at 30,000 feet nor does he want to face any return fire.

Bomber interception is made easier if you go AFK and do other things while you are in a climb........just like flying bombers.

If things go well, you might return to find yourself at 35,000 feet in a 110g with the cleanest loadout and 50 minutes fuel remaining..........over your HQ with a red dot 1/4 of a sector away.

In that scenario, the 110g will easily run down a B29 at 30,000 feet but beware the P47 often seen escorting very high B29s.

Most important is to know that most buff pilots who fly super high are doing it with the intent of RTB so you just get between them and freedom.

[tunnelrat]

bombers are already an easy kill, can't imagine why anyone would think making them 'weaker' is a good idea

Agreed, and it's already tough enough to get bomber pilots in scenarios and sometimes even FSO.

If you are having trouble with buffs you need to change your tactics/aircraft.

[hammer]

The one thing that I have seen suggested that I liked was tying it to the drones.  If the drones would only fly at a cruise setting you'd have the choice of a single fast bomber, or a formation of cruising bombers.

I like this idea.

[Karnak]

I think  the speeds of undamaged planes are fine but the drones should not be able to maintain formation with a dead engine unless the formation leader slows as well.

A few more of the many planes that can catch B29 at 30,000 feet.

mossie fighter

C205

yak9u

bf110g

F4U4 and F4u1a

Can do so with a struggle and are suited to doing so are two different things.  There is a whole list of aircraft I can do that are faster than the B-29 at 30,000ft, but the margin of error is very narrow for the fighter pilot.  That said, the B-29 is a perk bomber and ought to be a challenge to intercept.  Same for the Mossie XVI and Ar234B.

[SmokinLoon]

I have no issues if HTC were to implement some sort of speed limiting tether of sorts.  I wish the faster the bombers flew the less accurate the bombing was.  Currently, bombers can fly at max throttle and have no issues with hitting a hanger from 25,000 ft, it certainly was not that way in WWII.  Do people realize that most Allied heavy bombers in WWII dropped their ordnance at less than 230 TAS, yes?  I'm not sure about the B26's, B25's, Bostons, or even the B29 for that matter. 

Also, there is a reason the US and RAF used escort fighters when possible.       Bombers *should* be strung up meat when enemy bomber killers are able to intercept and the only defense are a few MG's.  It gives good reason to ask for proper fighter escort, if a player has a go alone then let altitude be their friend.  Ultimately, roll the dice.

I think something needs to happen regarding the speed in which bomber fly.  Either slow them down or have the high speeds effect their accuracy so that actual 1 pass carpet bombing becomes a norm.
   

[Lusche]

This time I won't argue against those proposals en detail, have done that often enough.

But just one thing I'd like to mention:
If most proposals made to limit bombers in AH would be applied - limited to cruise speed, different layers of wind at different altitudes, more complex calibration (maybe even the often wished for changes to bomber gunnery)...
What do you think would happen gameplay wise?

 

[Karnak]

What do you think would happen gameplay wise?

 

More P-51Ds.

Which is why I'd like it as a flag that can be enabled and disabled.  That way the AvA can set up a Battle of Britain week without having 300mph Ju88s and He111s while the MAs remain as they are.  No need to worry about P-51Ds in the Battle of Britain. 

[Torquila]

Removal of current bomber advantages would require removal of 262 and 163 from the lwa to provide balance.

[Krusty]

Icepac's just spouting a list of planes from the ah comparison charts. He's not talking from personal experience.

Simply looking at the chart doesn't tell you if it can effectively hunt bombers at 30k or not. That's absurd. F4us are not good at that alt. C2 is barely able to stay in the air, let alone maneuver and hunt. Same for most of your planes icepac. Like Kappa says, flying straight up a bomber's 6 oclock at 5mph closure rate does NOT an effective hunting strategy make.

[Lusche]

Simply looking at the chart doesn't tell you if it can effectively hunt bombers at 30k or not. That's absurd. F4us are not good at that alt. C2 is barely able to stay in the air, let alone maneuver and hunt. Same for most of your planes icepac. Like Kappa says, flying straight up a bomber's 6 oclock at 5mph closure rate does NOT an effective hunting strategy make.

F4Us are fine for hunting and killing all buffs but the B29 and to some extend the Mossie at that alt. Even the B-29 can get caught and shot down by them, it's just that I personally would prefer other rides better suited for the job.

By the way, since HTC made some adjustments you won't find anything but 17's 29's and the occasional Mossie at that alt. It's extremely rare to find B-24s past 28 and Lancs past 25k these days. And at that altitude, a lot of fighters can run down and shoot down those bombers without having a "closure rate of 5mph".
If you find yourself  crawling up the six of a bomber at that speed without any other option, calibrate your throttle of step away from the Hurricane 1.


And by the way, the utter majority of bomber sorties in the MA is flown at altitudes much lower than 30k. Only at strat raids you have a high percentage of high alt runs, but you also have much more warning time - if you actually use the map, which most players simply don't do.

[tunnelrat]

If someone spends the time to climb that high, they should get all the benefits that go along with it.

[Chalenge]

Again: Too many of you are looking at history to define how the planes should be portrayed in AH. Look again. The same engines the bombers use are in use by fighters, yet the fighters are not limited. Why? Historically the reason bombers flew so much more slowly is that they needed the formations for survival. A formation of three aircraft is much easier to maintain at higher speeds than a formation of 300-1000. If you have ever tried to fly in formation as a bomber pilot you would realize the futility of doing so at high power settings, unless someone is willing to slow down.

Disable bombers as you suggest and bombers will become hangar queens, or the few you see will be flying in the trees like 999000 does. Once that happens AH becomes a giant furball and subscriptions will fall.

[SmokinLoon]

This time I won't argue against those proposals en detail, have done that often enough.

But just one thing I'd like to mention:
If most proposals made to limit bombers in AH would be applied - limited to cruise speed, different layers of wind at different altitudes, more complex calibration (maybe even the often wished for changes to bomber gunnery)...
What do you think would happen gameplay wise?
 

Fair question and you're not the only person to think that way every time a subject of this matter comes about.  

If HTC put in to effect some sort of limiter, say a speed limiter for dropping bombs based on historical evidence I don't think it would have much of a bearing on who does what, really. I think the bomber barons will continue on as they have been and the fighter jocks will continue on as they have been.  I do think it would open up the fighter escort portion of the game a bit more, that role just became far more important.  If the B17 and B24 were restricted to dropping ordnance to speeds of less than 250 TAS, it really is not going to change their game. If the Mossi B Mk 16 were to be restricted to 250 TAS it most certainly would impact it because speed is the only defense it has.  However, with that said I do not know at what speed the Mossi B Mk 16 dropped its ordnance, if it did so while doing 350 TAS then so be it.  Likewise, I don't think the B29 can even stay aloft at 250 TAS.  So if HTC were to implement such a think it would have to be a "by the book" application and not a blanket "one size fits all".  Anyone know what the Ju88 and He111 flew for typical air speeds while dropping ordnance from 18,000 ft???

Giving HTC's history of not applying arbitrary restrictions on the aircraft and gv models in the game (save for the reload times of the tanks), I don't look for them to do anything in terms of limiting speeds.  However, I could see them put some sort of a spread factor on bombs.  I don't know how it is coded now, but it sure seems like if everything is calibrated, etc, the bomb lands very close if not exactly on where a players aims regardless of altitude.  I think by default the impact zone should be a lot larger the higher up the bomb is dropped.  For example, if HTC currently has a cone attached to a bomber with the point attached to the plane and the further away the ground is from the plane the base of that cone should get bigger.  As it is, if it is at all, the cone (impact zone) is rather small.  If HTC has the ability to affect the size of that cone based on the speed of the bomber maybe that is the route they should go.        

[Karnak]

Again: Too many of you are looking at history to define how the planes should be portrayed in AH. Look again. The same engines the bombers use are in use by fighters, yet the fighters are not limited. Why? Historically the reason bombers flew so much more slowly is that they needed the formations for survival. A formation of three aircraft is much easier to maintain at higher speeds than a formation of 300-1000. If you have ever tried to fly in formation as a bomber pilot you would realize the futility of doing so at high power settings, unless someone is willing to slow down.

Disable bombers as you suggest and bombers will become hangar queens, or the few you see will be flying in the trees like 999000 does. Once that happens AH becomes a giant furball and subscriptions will fall.

I absolutely agree no changes should be made to the MA.  I would like a flag for the AvA and private arenas though.