Discrepancies in cockpit views

[caldera]

Perhaps someone reading this post would think this should have been posted in the bugs forum, but that person didn't spend most of an afternoon putting this together.  So there. 

Besides wanting this evidence to actually get seen, maybe someone else can succeed in bettering the results of this study.  And what the hell is this thread even about?  Before I get too Bustr-esque, the subject pertains to cockpit views - specifically the differences between recently modeled planes, that allow widely varying pilot head movements towards the gunsight.



None of these views are zoomed in any way and were acheived by using the arrows on my keyboard:




This is as close as you can possibly get to the gunsight of the La-5.  The La-7 is similarly equipped.




This is maxed out for the B-239.  Not as bad as the La, but in the same version we got...




...the I-16 clearly allows you to get up close and personal to the gunsight.




Here is the Mossie.  Again, considerably better than the La but not as good as the I-16.




The Me 262 is not as advantaged either.  Maybe it drew the short straw.




The N1K maxed out doesn't let you get near our next contestant (which IFIRC came out about the same time)...




The fighter with the absolute worst six view (F6F), ironically has one of the very best views out the front.




The P-39Q is in the upper range of the group.




Where the Me 410 offers a pretty damn good frontal view.




The P-40 has nothing like the view of the 410.  This is as close as you can get.




The Zeros are better but clearly don't allow anything like our next guest...




The Typhoon is enjoying some rampant favoritism here.  Maybe the best view in the game.




Rounding out the list are the Hurricanes, which have one of the better views in this group.




HTC, could you please level the playing field here?  Not sure how hard it is to do but some planes are clearly disadvantaged here, as well as against many of the older AH2 models (which vary quite a bit like these newer models do).  Please let every plane allow the same range of forward motion.

[Nath[BDP]]

I set my "front up" (hat up and view down on throttle) view to that view in the F6F and I love it for deflection shooting.  Great sight over the nose.  I think the pilot in the F6F sat really high up. 

[Karnak]

Why are you trying to get as close to the gunsight as you can?  I understand putting the view as high as you can, but forward seems odd.

As to the Mossie, in reality the pilot's view was normally above the gunsight so far as I can tell and he had to duck down a bit to get the default AH view through the sight.  View over the nose should be good in it.

[The Fugitive]

Be careful what you wish for!

It looks like HTC let you move your head any where as long as it stayed inside the "cockpit". Now as they update each one they look to be rethinking that and are limiting the movement more to simulate the belts holding you back more.

Personally I like "sitting" back in my seat and only zoom in to lob a shot at a runner.

[Nath[BDP]]

Why are you trying to get as close to the gunsight as you can?  I understand putting the view as high as you can, but forward seems odd.

It gives you a better view over the nose and lower portion of the gunsight, in the F6F anyway

[caldera]

Be careful what you wish for!

It looks like HTC let you move your head any where as long as it stayed inside the "cockpit". Now as they update each one they look to be rethinking that and are limiting the movement more to simulate the belts holding you back more.

Personally I like "sitting" back in my seat and only zoom in to lob a shot at a runner.

Did you see the Hurricane and the Typhoon?  They let you stick your nose on the sight.  Now compare that to the P-40, La-5 and Zero.

From what I can tell, every fighter plane IRL had the gunsight in close proximity to the pilot.  They all had different obstructions from canopy layouts but nothing was between the pilot and the sight.  The same should be true in AH:  all pilots should be able to get the same distance from the gunsight, no matter what the plane.

[FLS]

The views should be different because the real views were different. The F6F was known for great forward views. That said, there may be some head movement limits that need to be adjusted.

[Franz Von Werra]

In some planes the view scooting seems to be consistent, some exceptions?

Me-410
Forward: I can scoot my head up quite high.
Backward: I can barely scoot my head up at all, so looking back is blocked almost entirely. Have to look back/up.
Sup with that?

--------------------------------------------------

Forever I've wished for a 'zoom number':
When changing from one plane to another my whole aiming calibration gets flushed.
Example:
109g6, forward view: I scoot seat forward and F10 just after the top bar disappears.
So there is only one horizontal bar. I set the chat buffer at like 4 lines long top to bottom, I keep it at top right corner. I set zoom so that the remaining center bar is just under the bottom of the chat buffer.
I can push forward on view to get normal/original 'full view' of dash, and I can click zoom to now see zoomed in.
This set up works best for me, I set it about the same for other 109s, still the bars are not exactly the same.

Now I go to the Fw190:
Uhh,  where is my horizontal bar? It's not the 109g6, so bar not there, sooo my REFERENCE point is not there.

I have a heck of a time hitting anything in the 190d9 because I fly the 109g6 more often and yes I know the guns are not in the same locations so more difficulty to switch over.

A 'zoom' number would say how much the zoom is zoomed. Say 1 is not zoomed at all, and 20 is zoomed all the way in.
This way I wouldn't need the bar.
Also we would only see the zoom number when we are adjusting the zoom, disappears after a second or so.

The 'zoom numbers' would be consistent reguardless of plane. Hence we see the same degrees to the sides of the screen for the same number in any plane.
Phrase might be "what is your zoom number?"

[bustr]

Caldera,

You will be happy to know I tried forcing the forward view for you by editing the hps file in a number of the planes tested by your self. Third value in line 1 in the aircraft's hps file is your up\down arrow key F10 saved position. The range of forward motion is locked. I suspect in the res file for each aircraft. In real life collimating lens gunsights like in our fighters. They were designed to be used from about 6 - 18 inches to the eye.

For authenticity your argument in this matter has value based on the limits of the real life eye distance. You would have to ask HiTech for the specs on each aircraft and the average distance of the pilot's face from the gunsight. For general average gameplay, I guess you need to keep shouting at Mt. HiTech to change his choice for the max forwad limit in line 1 of the hps file. Using zoom to accomplish your wish seems simpler than a pissing match with HiTech. But, if thats how you want to spend your $14.95, its a free country outside of HiTech's game, along with reading being an optional hobby in the 21st century.

[caldera]

I guess you need to keep shouting at Mt. HiTech to change his choice for the max forwad limit in line 1 of the hps file. Using zoom to accomplish your wish seems simpler than a pissing match with HiTech. But, if thats how you want to spend your $14.95, its a free country outside of HiTech's game, along with reading being an optional hobby in the 21st century.

I need to keep shouting?  This is the first time mentioning this issue and there are no sentences in caps lock.  Is it wrong, bringing a discrepancy to the attention of the game maker? 


To clarify what I'm asking for:  Since the gunsight was right in front of the pilot's face in every fighter, all planes should allow the same range of motion to the gunsight.  Not asking for the same views in every plane.

[Torquila]

"I need to keep shouting?  This is the first time mentioning this issue and there are no sentences in caps lock.  Is it wrong, bringing a discrepancy to the attention of the game maker? "

Caldera, it could be depending on the maker.

If they are bad bellybutton know-it-alls then I am pretty sure our attempts to convince them of problems will invariably lead them to assuming we think we know their business better then they do.

Otherwise you are stuck dealing with systematic constructs which vary from single designers who look into every nook and cranny observed to thousand programmer collectives who never make a mistake to begin with.

[Megalodon]

I need to keep shouting?  This is the first time mentioning this issue and there are no sentences in caps lock.  Is it wrong, bringing a discrepancy to the attention of the game maker? 


To clarify what I'm asking for:  Since the gunsight was right in front of the pilot's face in every fighter, all planes should allow the same range of motion to the gunsight.  Not asking for the same views in every plane.

I believe it has been stated the farthest forward you can get is the actually view.

I usually push the down arrow/page up till I can see all the instruments/counter and sight the way I like to see or back/up in the seat.

I use 14 view buttons. Lately I have been using the zoom function to see and line up tanks, which I'm not good at  and end up whacking the tank or the tree with my landing gear.

[FLS]

To clarify what I'm asking for:  Since the gunsight was right in front of the pilot's face in every fighter, all planes should allow the same range of motion to the gunsight.  Not asking for the same views in every plane.

I don't believe there was a standardized head to gun sight distance for all WW2 fighters.  I expect the actual cockpit layout is used to set the head position limits.

[caldera]

I don't believe there was a standardized head to gun sight distance for all WW2 fighters.  I expect the actual cockpit layout is used to set the head position limits.

Not saying there were standards but can there really be this much of a difference?  Some planes need an adjustment.

Hurricane:



P-40:

I believe it has been stated the farthest forward you can get is the actually view.

What is preventing the P-40 pilot from getting as close as the Hurri pilot?

[bustr]

The gunsights of WW2 had a specific limitation of 6-18 inches due to the arrangement of the lenses and relationship to the beam splitter or glass reflector plate. When you look at the different solutions to mounting gunsights, they all were aimed at making the average distance to the pilots face while sitting upright near the long end of that range. Some collimating gunsights were mounted on guns for bomber positions closer than 18 inches. On average the gunsight was installed for a distance of 16-18 inches.

So if you are trying to push forward to the windscreen and not the gunsight to look over the nose. Consider the mounting method and if the limitation in the HTC universe is the afor mentioned distance relative to a strapped in pilot.