A-20 characteristics

[Grayclif]

Dear HTC,

Please take a look at updating the handling characteristcs of the A-20.

Last night I was out-turned by an A-20 while flying a P-51D in a dogfight at 14k alt. We entered into a tight turn fight at this alt and within 2 complete circles, the A-20, piloted by "Cobia38", was able to turn inside my pony (even with my flaps deployed and WEP power) for the kill. Having known a pilot who flew real A-20's, being a pilot myself, and comparing the two real aircrafts qualities; this would not have been possible. Even under ideal conditions for the A-20 could not turn with such a nimble fighter. Especially in air that dense.

The A-20 pilot I know, said that the A-20 has a lot of climbing power, and turns fairly well if speeds were high, but that is about it. "It was dog in the air for the most part, handling much like an empty B-25. But if you we're going over 300 mph the Havoc would pull vertical with the best of 'em." "You put it thru the mill in dives and g-loading, it just couldn't turn worth a damn".

Either yet another hack has joined the ranks, or the A-20 needs a big big mod. Please fix. 

Thank you.

Regards,

The Grayclif

[The Fugitive]

LOL!  Carry on!  You don't turn WITH an A20!

[Karnak]

P-51D was not a nimble fighter.

Nimble fighters are things like the A6Ms, Brewster, F4Fs, I-16, Hurricanes and, perhaps, some Spitfires and Bf109s.

It sounds like you got into a pure turn radius fight and there are many bombers that will beat many fighters in a pure turn radius contest.  Turn rate will almost always favor fighters, but you need to keep speed up and not be using flaps.

[Grayclif]

I agree. However, certainly nimble compared to a big twin engine torque monster.

[Karnak]

I agree. However, certainly nimble compared to a big twin engine torque monster.

Torque monster?  I don't think you know what that means.  Your P-51D has more torque.

It is a big airplane with, what, 3000hp total?  Compare that to little things like the Spit XIV and Bf109K-4 with 2000hp.  Having two engines also mutes torque effects to a degree.  Lastly, torque has little to do with turning.

[gyrene81]

sounds like he ran into cobia in his a20 death machine...    you shouldn't have been turning with him, especially in a pony. boom and zoom, use slashing attacks, don't try to take him down in 1 pass unless you have cannons.
 
you should ask cobia for a ride along and get some tips from him on how he flies that thing...there aren't many who can fly the a20 like he does.

[Dragon]

A properly trimmed c-47 can also out turn your p-51 for the same reasons the a-20 can.  

You rammed me in my Storch last night with guns blazing in same pony without doing me any damage.  If that is your aptitude than it's no surprise that Cobia beat your ass.

[Grayclif]

I had only a few rounds left on my storch and you pulled up into me but I got the collide. I landed with half a wing none-the-less. Which adds to my arguement concerning realism.

Anyhow, fact remains that the A-20 can not out turn a pony. Not possible. As the creators of this game strive to be realistic, they should re-evaluate the A-20. My arguement is, that if they had the A-20 handling correct, last nights out come would have had me out turning him instead.

And you must not ever have flown real aircraft, because P factor has a HUGE impact on turning. And only when both engines are setup to turn in opposite directions on a twin, does it not play much of a factor. Fly something as small as a Cessna 140 and try some tight turns at full power to the right and the left. Then try the same in a Piper Seneca.

-poof-

[Slate]

   Fear the A-20 when cobia38 is flying it!  

  He picked a ride that suits him well and is Very good at it.

  I wonder if he has dual throttles like some good P-38 pilots do. Don't underestimate them either.

  Film your sorties and see where you went wrong.  

[Triton28]

With center mounted guns, good turning, rented mule durability, and excellent zoom potential, the A-20 is a beast for sure.

That Cobia guy is alright in it... I guess.   

[Grayclif]

The only place I went wrong was picking a fight with a plane that is not setup correctly. Wouldn't made much difference who was flying it if HTC has given it a turn advantage over P51's. (Which again, it should not have)

[gyrene81]

The only place I went wrong was picking a fight with a plane that is not setup correctly. Wouldn't made much difference who was flying it if HTC has given it a turn advantage over P51's. (Which again, it should not have)

uh ok...if it was anyone else, you probably would have out turned it.

[Karnak]

The only place I went wrong was picking a fight with a plane that is not setup correctly. Wouldn't made much difference who was flying it if HTC has given it a turn advantage over P51's. (Which again, it should not have)

In the fight you chose to have with it, yes it should.  In any other fight you could have chosen it doesn't have the advantage.

The failure was all yours.

[5PointOh]

The only place I went wrong was picking a fight with a plane that is not setup correctly. Wouldn't made much difference who was flying it if HTC has given it a turn advantage over P51's. (Which again, it should not have)

So you have acess to HTCs flight model specs for the A-20? Do you have access to aeronautical specs on P-51s and A-20s to prove your claims? Oh you don't? My opinion is you got in a low/slow turn fight in an airframe that doesn't like to be slow. You should probably learn some things about the abilities and characteristics of the 51 series before spouting off on some crazy A-20 witch hunt.

[leitwolf]

Dear Grayclif,

Please do not confuse turn radius and turn rate. A slow A20 will turn inside a P51 because its turn radius becomes smaller. You have not been outturned, you have been outflown.

But many fighter-pile-its tend to be overconfident when it comes to big two engined things.. which is why the A20 is so much fun