A Simpler Time

[dedalos]

DA. Give me a 410/190/110. You try to evade it. Bet you you can't.

We run this test a while back with bighorn in the DA. Same alt merge, 1 vs 1 fight, I would try to ho at the merge and he would try to avoid and get and advantage from my ho attempt. As expected, the HOer had a slight advantage after the merge. The reason was that my ho would force him to turn early anabling me to get a better position.

So, slight advantage given his skill and the fact that he expected it.  Now imagin some one average, slow, and already engaged. Saying that avoiding the ho is easy or that it takes 2 too ho just shows how little one understands the game.

As for the game play, it has always been like this. When I was a bigginer our co then would call in ho strikes if he was rtb with kills and someone was chasing him. We always horded undeffended bases and left if the vulch did not succeed.  Humans want to win and if you are a bigginer, the only way is to join the horde or point your plane at another and fire.  If HT changes the capture system or the ho they will be out of business.

The problem with getting out of that mode and learning how to fight are squads and training. I got out of when I took and arse wooping from a lone slow spit one day.  It was slapshot. After that, I made it a point not to get destroyed like that again. I had to leave the squad though because they were only interested in buildings.

[Changeup]

We run this test a while back with bighorn in the DA. Same alt merge, 1 vs 1 fight, I would try to ho at the merge and he would try to avoid and get and advantage from my ho attempt. As expected, the HOer had a slight advantage after the merge. The reason was that my ho would force him to turn early anabling me to get a better position.

So, slight advantage given his skill and the fact that he expected it.  Now imagin some one average, slow, and already engaged. Saying that avoiding the ho is easy or that it takes 2 too ho just shows how little one understands the game.

As for the game play, it has always been like this. When I was a bigginer our co then would call in ho strikes if he was rtb with kills and someone was chasing him. We always horded undeffended bases and left if the vulch did not succeed.  Humans want to win and if you are a bigginer, the only way is to join the horde or point your plane at another and fire.  If HT changes the capture system or the ho they will be out of business.

The problem with getting out of that mode and learning how to fight are squads and training. I got out of when I took and arse wooping from a lone slow spit one day.  It was slapshot. After that, I made it a point not to get destroyed like that again. I had to leave the squad though because they were only interested in buildings.

+1

Please don't show Arlo this.  He will argue about it.  Just sayin.

[Delirium]

We run this test a while back with bighorn in the DA. Same alt merge, 1 vs 1 fight, I would try to ho at the merge and he would try to avoid and get and advantage from my ho attempt. As expected, the HOer had a slight advantage after the merge. The reason was that my ho would force him to turn early anabling me to get a better position.

What aircraft were you using during this test? Generally, lateral separation at the merge tends to favor the aircraft with the better ability to maneuver.

[Arlo]

+1

Please don't show Arlo this.  He will argue about it.  Just sayin.

Apparently I'm on your mind today. That's a bit disconcerting.

[Changeup]

Apparently I'm on your mind today. That's a bit disconcerting.

Actually, I was reading Triton, Dedalos, Titanic3 and a few others that named you internet-arguer-extraodinaire and I thought it fitting to warn him.  Watching you argue with them reminded me.  See?  You don't know everything, lol.  So cheer up little fella.  No need for discontentment.

[muzik]

Actually, I was reading Triton, Dedalos, Titanic3 and a few others that named you internet-arguer-extraodinaire and I thought it fitting to warn him.  Watching you argue with them reminded me.  See?  You don't know everything, lol.  So cheer up little fella.  No need for discontentment.

I thought arguments took place in English, not in pictures. I recently had to learn "pic" because he can't understand English.

It was IRONIC

[Changeup]

I thought arguments took place in English, not in pictures. I recently had to learn "pic" because he can't understand English.

It was IRONIC

LMAO!  I wasn't going to go there yet.  I was waiting to see what pic he posted in response.

[Arlo]

Actually, I was reading Triton, Dedalos, Titanic3 and a
few others that named you internet-arguer-extraodinaire and I thought it fitting to warn him.  Watching you argue with them reminded me.  See?  You don't know everything, lol.  So cheer up little fella.  No need for discontentment.

The word was 'disconcerting' which means something else, entirely.

Huh. And you can't get enough so you invoke reality by faith? You're a tad off kilter, yaknow.  

[Changeup]

The word was 'disconcerting' which means something else, entirely.

Huh. And you can't get enough so you invoke reality by faith? You're a tad off kilter, yaknow.  

No Pic? lol

[dedalos]

What aircraft were you using during this test? Generally, lateral separation at the merge tends to favor the aircraft with the better ability to maneuver.

Same planes

[morfiend]

We run this test a while back with bighorn in the DA. Same alt merge, 1 vs 1 fight, I would try to ho at the merge and he would try to avoid and get and advantage from my ho attempt. As expected, the HOer had a slight advantage after the merge. The reason was that my ho would force him to turn early anabling me to get a better position.

So, slight advantage given his skill and the fact that he expected it.  Now imagin some one average, slow, and already engaged. Saying that avoiding the ho is easy or that it takes 2 too ho just shows how little one understands the game.

As for the game play, it has always been like this. When I was a bigginer our co then would call in ho strikes if he was rtb with kills and someone was chasing him. We always horded undeffended bases and left if the vulch did not succeed.  Humans want to win and if you are a bigginer, the only way is to join the horde or point your plane at another and fire.  If HT changes the capture system or the ho they will be out of business.

The problem with getting out of that mode and learning how to fight are squads and training. I got out of when I took and arse wooping from a lone slow spit one day.  It was slapshot. After that, I made it a point not to get destroyed like that again. I had to leave the squad though because they were only interested in buildings.

  Ded,

  This is interesting,first that you even remember it but could you explain the advantage that the Ho'er has after the merge? I've always thought I could get the Ho;er to be at a disadvantage by using a lead turn just after the Ho attempt.

   Both you and Big are IMHO some of the best,so I'm really curious to hear how it all played out.


      

[dedalos]

  Ded,

  This is interesting,first that you even remember it but could you explain the advantage that the Ho'er has after the merge? I've always thought I could get the Ho;er to be at a disadvantage by using a lead turn just after the Ho attempt.

   Both you and Big are IMHO some of the best,so I'm really curious to hear how it all played out.


      

I think what a lot of people are witnessing is that they win the fight after a HO attempt and they assume that it was because the HOer somehow got at a disadvantage.  From my experience, what is really happening is that you met a guy that really has nothing more to put into the fight other that that HO shot.  You would have won the fight no matter what they did.

Here is where we saw the advantages.  Assuming the HOer does know how to fight and is not a new guy:
1) What ever your plan of engagement was, it is now gone.  He now has the initiative and he obviously does not care about getting shot in the face so you have to focus on avoiding instead of planing your attack.  Depending on the plane that can be huge.  If a 110 opens up at 1K out your instinct is to avoid first and position second.
2) As you pull away, you could take hits.  That will either break your concentration or remove a part or two from your plane.
3) The most important one in my opinion.  The lead turn you mentioned cannot be too early.  If you start your turn too early the bad guy will instantly have position on you.  So, if I came in to you guns blazing and you tried to pull a lead turn too early, all I have to do is cut back on throttle a little and watch where you are going.  I will be on your six right away.

The thing to remember here is that the HOer has to know what he is doing.  A new guy would be dead anyway HO shot or not.  However, even the newby will gain something from the HO shot since he at the very list managed to put some lead towards you and could land a hit or two.  There are a lot of variables in a fight but if everything was equal and you were fighting against your self, your HOing self would have the upper hand.

[kappa]

I think what a lot of people are witnessing is that they win the fight after a HO attempt and they assume that it was because the HOer somehow got at a disadvantage.  From my experience, what is really happening is that you met a guy that really has nothing more to put into the fight other that that HO shot.  You would have won the fight no matter what they did.

Here is where we saw the advantages.  Assuming the HOer does know how to fight and is not a new guy:
1) What ever your plan of engagement was, it is now gone.  He now has the initiative and he obviously does not care about getting shot in the face so you have to focus on avoiding instead of planing your attack.  Depending on the plane that can be huge.  If a 110 opens up at 1K out your instinct is to avoid first and position second.
2) As you pull away, you could take hits.  That will either break your concentration or remove a part or two from your plane.
3) The most important one in my opinion.  The lead turn you mentioned cannot be too early.  If you start your turn too early the bad guy will instantly have position on you.  So, if I came in to you guns blazing and you tried to pull a lead turn too early, all I have to do is cut back on throttle a little and watch where you are going.  I will be on your six right away.

The thing to remember here is that the HOer has to know what he is doing.  A new guy would be dead anyway HO shot or not.  However, even the newby will gain something from the HO shot since he at the very list managed to put some lead towards you and could land a hit or two.  There are a lot of variables in a fight but if everything was equal and you were fighting against your self, your HOing self would have the upper hand.

I see what you're saying here.. but just outta curiosity, were you guys merging on the deck? I can see what you're saying being true that way.. I can't see it true if you have vertical room to move on the merge..

[morfiend]

I see what you're saying here.. but just outta curiosity, were you guys merging on the deck? I can see what you're saying being true that way.. I can't see it true if you have vertical room to move on the merge..

  Pretty much what I was thinking!   Ded I think the main point is the difference from someone who's only move is to do a head on attack,of course if the player has any idea of what to do I can see exactly what you're saying.

   Know Big you guys did every type and possible merge,the man can dissect a knat,even without being able to see it......      Some say he flies by sound alone!


   

[2bighorn]

As Dedalos said, the average MA HOer will mess up its merge simply because they hold the trigger for too long.

In our case (Dedalos and I), HOer always gained an advantage, no matter the separation, because sooner or later you have to start your lead turn, which usually means you turn into an opponent and that will bring you right into his path. If you know other guy will go for HO (as it was in our case) you have to adjust your lead turn timing. You can't go for early one because you get shot, you stick with your normal, you get HOed, if you wait, you're late and at disadvantage.  Even if you stick with timing but adjust your turn to be more offset, you'll lose time and with that position/angles for the next one.

Good stick won't hold the trigger until planes pass, he'll just go for brief snapshot HO, which is enough for lucky hit or to force other's guy hand. In each case, HOer gained an advantage.