Open Letter to Plissken and FSO CMs

[guncrasher]

Frankly I am questioning if the rules were followed even. ImADot participated also in the event thus I must question his post above. I don't want to ban CMs from having fun but if it impairs their impartial function as admins then what is there to do?

The earliest recorded loss I've found, yet not awarded to anyone so could be a crash???
oHUSKERo
22:07:09 Departed from Field #123 in a Ju 87D-3
22:10:24 Was shot down by (crashed).

Next to go down was.
tripleS
22:04:56 Departed from Field #101 in a Ju 87D-3
22:26:40 Was shot down by and captured.

The last LW upper was.
SIRB
22:09:18 Departed from Field #123 in a Ju 87D-3

The last RAF upper was from the same squad (~~~THE UNFORGIVEN~~~) as plissken, clearly after combat was joined if the above is correct.
RELIC
22:23:25 Departed from Field #46 in a Hurricane Mk I

ZZZ_NO_SQUAD
RandallJ
22:19:03 Departed from Field #35 in a Spitfire Mk I

162ndFG\"Purple*Hearts\"
WyteNyte
22:16:49 Departed from Field #64 in a Spitfire Mk I

So if the logs show correctly, it is OK for the RAF to up after combat is joined, but not for the LW. If this is correct someone did wrong and explanation is due. Or is this acceptable policy?  

If the first loss is incorrect and and the first loss was at 22:26:40 the decision to deny Stampf to rejoin can be questioned. If the first loss is correct there are RAF players who SHOULD have been grounded. So something is not right here, CMs get to pick which one and what policy you are enforcing here. Or are the logs rubbish altogether?

 

there's a time difference between when you first see the enemy and until somebody dies.  I got my kill about 5 minutes after I had started firing my first round.  by then we had been in a combat situation for 15 minutes and that was just in our sector.  there were reports of airplanes in other sectors at least 25 minutes before then.



semp

[33Vortex]

First recorded kill on RAF side was;
shamus
22:04:38 Departed from Field #41 in a Hurricane Mk I
22:28:02 Shot down a Bf 109E-4 flown by cujo.

Closely followed by;
Stresser
22:04:35 Departed from Field #46 in a Hurricane Mk I
22:28:48 Shot down a Ju 87D-3 flown by InCrypt.

So my questions still stand. When exactly was combat joined and where? Was Stampf denied re-entry with just cause? The logs show that these questions are warranted.

Respectfully  
/Turner

[33Vortex]

there's a time difference between when you first see the enemy and until somebody dies.  I got my kill about 5 minutes after I had started firing my first round.  by then we had been in a combat situation for 15 minutes and that was just in our sector.  there were reports of airplanes in other sectors at least 25 minutes before then.

semp

I am fully aware of this uncertainty factor. The questions still stand.

[SIK1]

I'm not sure I'm understanding Vortex when he says Stampf wasn't allowed back into the arena, or he wasn't allowed to re-up. If he wasn't allowed back into the arena then that would be a legitimate complaint, but if he wasn't allowed to re-up then that would be as per rule. As ImADot states in his responce;

It is stated that fields close 15 minutes after the event starts...except for discos OR COMBAT HAS BEEN JOINED. Flight is disabled, the arena is not locked and nobody is denied entry to the arena. Once the fighting starts, the only way back into the air is if the disco reconnect feature works; and it seems to depend on the nature of the disco, because I've heard reports that it works for some but not others. The rule about not letting people re-up after combat starts is because there will always be some people that will claim to be discoed when they were actually shot down, and we cannot tell when someone discos, so to be fair we don't allow people to re-up once the bullets start flying.
 

If the disco reconnect didn't work for Stampf that sux, but it is the way it is, and he should have been free to join another's plane as an observer. If he wasn't allowed back into the arena then that would be a different issue and should be addressed by the CM staff. Personally I don't think the rule needs to be reviewed. It's straightforward as to what is and isn't allowed. With the addition of the disco reconnect feature there is even the opportunity to rejoin the fight, but it doesn't always work the way it's expected to. As BigRat stated Stampf and JG11 are held in high regard by just about everyone in AH, and I find it highly unlikely that anything was done maliciously to keep Stampf from flying in FSO.

Honestly Vortex I think you're out of line accusing the CM's of not following the rules. Your evidence is slipshod at best. The last RAF upper is a full two minutes before Stampf disco'd. The first LW plane to be shot down in your example was just three minutes after launching and most likely was a simple crash probably because of the clouds. It doesn't even fall within the fifteen minute rule. The first LW plane that actually appears to be shot down in your example is a minute and a half after Stampf's disco. You might want to discuss these accusations with your squad before bringing them here, and if they feel that something improper was done let the squad's leadership deal with it in an appropriate manor.

[pops57]

Yeah that was quite a BB gun fest, like I said you guys really covered us well making it possible for most of our group to score good drops.

[33Vortex]

I thought I was clear enough about this, that this post was made by me without the support of JG11 and does not represent JG11 or JG11 command. I had to explain myself to the squad, as you can see above if you care to read it.

Is it too much to ask questions around here? Inconveniences not allowed, controversy frowned upon as ignorance?

What is this, a popularity contest?

[SIK1]

I thought I was clear enough about this, that this post was made by me without the support of JG11 and does not represent JG11 or JG11 command. I had to explain myself to the squad, as you can see above if you care to read it.

Is it too much to ask questions around here? Inconveniences not allowed, controversy frowned upon as ignorance?

What is this, a popularity contest?

You're not asking questions your making accusations. Try talking to Stampf he is your CO, and the one that wasn't able to fly in FSO. Does he feel like he was unfairly kept from FSO, and if so has he contacted the CM's? The only person the CM's owe an explanation too is Stampf. If he feels he was done wrong then the CM's should explain it to him. If he wants to tell you what they said that would be up to him.

[Tank-Ace]

More than the reupping issue, I'm now concerned about the impartiality of the CM's.

I don't care if they're doing it knowingly, or if their participation compromises their ability to manage the event. But it needs to stop.


The fact that there is a sizable discrepancy between the last uppers is a HUGE issue for me. If the job is too big for one person, I will volunteer my time to deal with discos and reupping exclusively. But impartiality in an area that could deny someone their fun is 100% unacceptable.

[guncrasher]

I am fully aware of this uncertainty factor. The questions still stand.

on my film at 15 minutes it was announced that fields were closed.  at  21 minutes and 55 seconds the first report of vis on enemy con was announced.  almost a minute after that it was announced that fields were closed.  I am pretty sure the delay between vis and actually is because there isnt a button to just press and close the fields then automatically type that "fields are closed"

now according to my own record in fso  I took off at 22:04:25  so add to that 21 minutes and 55 seconds, we come up with 22:26:30.  so stamf discoed at 22:25:16 so he would have had to disco'd and relog send pm in about a minute and 15 seconds.  

but you can always ask other members of your squad if they recorded their sorties and compare versions.

semp

[perdue3]

I had another squaddie disco before combat joined. He was confused when re came back, then approached a CM. Im not sure which one but that CM told him to go to ImaDot. Finally after 5 mins he still couldnt take off when I approached channel 202. Unclkurt said there is nothing he can do because combat was joined literally 90 seconds ago and Freytag never approached him until it was too late. Well, poor old Freytag came back way before combat was joined, even though combat was 225 miles away from my squad. But since a communication breakdown occurred among the CM's on duty, he was unable to fly. He discoed in the first place to the freaking clouds.

I, like Jager, understand the purpose of the rule. However, there needs to be a little reform. If combat is 200 miles away, let him take off and have fun.

[33Vortex]

If combat is 200 miles away, let him take off and have fun.

Exactly.

And don't mind the accusations, for they have no substance without evidence. I am asking questions that are motivated by these uncertanties. If you take my "accusations" to heart and play that card, well... do I really have to expand on that?

[SIK1]

Exactly.

And don't mind the accusations, for they have no substance without evidence. I am asking questions that are motivated by these uncertanties. If you take my "accusations" to heart and play that card, well... do I really have to expand on that?

Accusations without substance taint the entire FSO. It encourages the malcontents to join the "mob" and to call out for the lynching of those involved. Again you are not just asking questions you are making accusations founded on poorly interpreted information. I find it peculiar that no other member of JG11 has come forth to support your claim of inappropriate behavior by the CM's. Who are all volunteers btw, and do this so that we can enjoy the game that we enjoy. Like I said previously Stampf and JG11 is held in high regard by the members of this community and I question why a member of such a squad is making such unsubstantiated accusations.

[Tank-Ace]

Accusations without substance taint the entire FSO. It encourages the malcontents to join the "mob" and to call out for the lynching of those involved. Again you are not just asking questions you are making accusations founded on poorly interpreted information. I find it peculiar that no other member of JG11 has come forth to support your claim of inappropriate behavior by the CM's. Who are all volunteers btw, and do this so that we can enjoy the game that we enjoy. Like I said previously Stampf and JG11 is held in high regard by the members of this community and I question why a member of such a squad is making such unsubstantiated accusations.

Unsubstantiated? Look at the logs! Allied pilots upped after several German pilots were refused. If it's not inappropriate, then it's sure as hell negligent of you guys.

As a paying customer and FSO participant, I demand that action be taken to rectify this issue, should it occur again. It's not acceptable, end of story.

[SIK1]

Unsubstantiated? Look at the logs! Allied pilots upped after several German pilots were refused. If it's not inappropriate, then it's sure as hell negligent of you guys.

As a paying customer and FSO participant, I demand that action be taken to rectify this issue, should it occur again. It's not acceptable, end of story.

Where do you see that allied pilots were allowed to up after axis pilots were denied? The latest time for an allied pilot to up posted by Vortex was 22:23:25 more than a full minute before Stampf disco'd. I stand by my previous statement, and I'm not going to go through the logs to try and substantiate your witch hunt. By your own CO's admission your guy was confused and didn't ask permission to up within the proper time frame.

I had another squaddie disco before combat joined. He was confused when re came back, then approached a CM. Im not sure which one but that CM told him to go to ImaDot. Finally after 5 mins he still couldnt take off when I approached channel 202. Unclkurt said there is nothing he can do because combat was joined literally 90 seconds ago and Freytag never approached him until it was too late. Well, poor old Freytag came back way before combat was joined, even though combat was 225 miles away from my squad. But since a communication breakdown occurred among the CM's on duty, he was unable to fly. He discoed in the first place to the freaking clouds.

I, like Jager, understand the purpose of the rule. However, there needs to be a little reform. If combat is 200 miles away, let him take off and have fun.

I don't think special rules should be made just because you weren't able to follow the rules that were in place. If combat has been joined you can not re-up. I don't care how far from the action you claim to be.

[PuppetZ]

It's most unfortunate what happened but it appears to merely be enforcing the rules as they are written. As to if the rule is well worded, I'll only tell that it has happened to me and it sucked. I had read the rules and well knew I was out for the night.

The rule as worded (Discos may re-up up to 30 minutes after the hour (if there is no enemy engagement).) does leave a grey area as to if it's allowable to let a pilot re-up after a disco if his squad was not engaged or if it encompass the whole theater. In my memories, it was always enforced as a whole theater, if any combat start on the map, it's game over. I can only make assumption as to the why's, probably related to the need to limit the amount of micro-management required. It's easier to lock things up as the first engagement reports comes in than to verify if each disco has seen combat. Of more interest would be the how the beginning of combat is assessed.

You make very grave accusations and I see no proof in what has been posted so far that the rules were broken by anyone. I have no reason to question the integrity of the CM team either. Your case lie on very shaky ground with only anecdotal proof. To "ask you to either be relieved of your duties, or heavily reprimanded" on those premises is questionable at best.