Beautiful Sisters

[TGG93]

I pity the Bismark or KG5 class BB that finds itself engaged with an Iowa or Yamato class BB.

Hence why I said Atlantic, would at least give them a chance!

[Karnak]

Hence why I said Atlantic, would at least give them a chance!

But the MA doesn't work that way.  If each side got four BB groups, one of each type, you'd be as likely to get a KG5 vs Yamato as you would an Iowa vs Iowa fight.

[BaldEagl]

I've always been a fan of the Yorktown class carriers and the Hornet in particular.

Here's a link to an absolutely beautiful model of the Hornet carrying Doolittle's raiders that I thought you all might enjoy:  http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-08/350-kk/kk-index.html

Sorry for taking this slightly off topic.

[bangsbox]

I pity the Bismark or KG5 class BB that finds itself engaged with an Iowa or Yamato class BB.

Lol are u kidding? Great compartmentalization and a amazing fire control. Don't underestimate...ask the hood and miss Elizabeth

[Arlo]

But the MA doesn't work that way.  If each side got four BB groups, one of each type, you'd be as likely to get a KG5 vs Yamato as you would an Iowa vs Iowa fight.

MA maps need not contain one of each type fleet. Still best to design fleet stuff for Pacific, though. We're way more likely to set up multiple events for Pac ships, from that perspective.

[Karnak]

Lol are u kidding? Great compartmentalization and a amazing fire control. Don't underestimate...ask the hood and miss Elizabeth

A lucky hit against a battlecruiser does not offer much hope against a 60,000+ ton or 70,000+ ton BB, both of which also have extremely good protection and effective fire control along with much better firepower.  How'd Bismark do against KGV and Rodney?  I don't recall much damage to either of them.

Either Yamato or Iowa would be massively favored in a fight against Bismark or KG5.

[Saxman]

A lucky hit against a battlecruiser does not offer much hope against a 60,000+ ton or 70,000+ ton BB, both of which also have extremely good protection and effective fire control along with much better firepower.  How'd Bismark do against KGV and Rodney?  I don't recall much damage to either of them.

Either Yamato or Iowa would be massively favored in a fight against Bismark or KG5.

ESPECIALLY if Iowa's radar fire control is modeled...

[GScholz]

Are we talking 1941 Bismarck vs. 1944 Iowa, or 1941 Bismarck vs. a hypothetical 1941 Iowa without her fancy radar fire control, or a hypothetical 1944 Bismarck vs. a 1944 Iowa with hypothetical equality in fire control?

Must compare apples to apples... If not then Iowa clearly wins because she's got Tomahawk cruise missiles.

[Arlo]

Are we talking 1941 Bismarck vs. 1944 Iowa, or 1941 Bismarck vs. a hypothetical 1941 Iowa without her fancy radar fire control, or a hypothetical 1944 Bismarck vs. a 1944 Iowa with hypothetical equality in fire control?

Must compare apples to apples... If not then Iowa clearly wins because she's got Tomahawk cruise missiles.

Um, well huh. The Bismark would have as much difficulty sinking the dock where Iowa class battle ships are eventually going to be built as it would defending itself from Tomahawk cruise missiles from it's watery grave. I'm not sure where your apple was intended to float, sir.

Aces High II matches up a lot of toys that never met over the years.

Never-the-less, I'd say model the Iowa and Yamato (two more toys that never met in real life) and leave the Bismark for later. 

[GScholz]

Then perhaps we could get Bismarck's sister ship Tirpitz. A slightly better comparison.

[Karnak]

Then perhaps we could get Bismarck's sister ship Tirpitz. A slightly better comparison.

It wouldn't matter.  Eight 15" guns and a lighter, less protected ship against either nine 16" or nine 18.1" guns on much larger, better protected ships.  A Bismarck class ship would just be out of its league against either.

[mthrockmor]

It would all boil down to fire control.

That technology circa 1940 versus even four years later, the technology on the Iowas was very different. If the Bismark had 1944 technology she would do well. The difference between a 15" and 16" is very slight. Certainly the 15" of the Bismarck showed what happens when that round penetrates into the ammo bunker. And, for those theorists who go with the 8" of the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen actually took out the Hood, makes the case even more so. Rounds on target is what it's about.

Six to ten hits from the Bismark would leave an Iowa in rough, rough shape!

Boo

[Karnak]

It would all boil down to fire control.

That technology circa 1940 versus even four years later, the technology on the Iowas was very different. If the Bismark had 1944 technology she would do well. The difference between a 15" and 16" is very slight. Certainly the 15" of the Bismarck showed what happens when that round penetrates into the ammo bunker. And, for those theorists who go with the 8" of the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen actually took out the Hood, makes the case even more so. Rounds on target is what it's about.

Six to ten hits from the Bismark would leave an Iowa in rough, rough shape!

Boo

I think you're significantly undervaluing the effect of armor.  Iowa's protection is much better than the Bismark class's, as is Yamato's.  Penetrating the magazine on a BC is one thing, but on a heavy BB it is something else, look at Jutland.  Iowa and Yamato also lack the unprotected torpedoes that Hood had and which may have caused her loss.

[GScholz]

You overstate the Iowa's armor. Both ships can cause each other a great deal of damage to the area above the main armor deck. The Bismarck's upper belt area wouldn't keep out battleship size shells. The lower belt area is better protected in Bismarck and at close range where Bismarck can penetrate Iowa's belt, Bismarck has an advantage. Bismarck's lower citadel probably can't be penetrated at any range by Iowa because of the way it was designed with the "turtleback" scheme. It is effectively impossible to penetrate into Bismarck's engineering spaces and main gun magazines with direct gunfire because of the arrangement of the armor and the fact that a shell would have to penetrate the side armor + turtleback + holding bulkhead. Nathan Okun calculated that if you put one of Yamato's 18" guns against Bismarck's hull, you might just barely be able to penetrate it. On Iowa and most other schemes, once you penetrate the main belt there is no significant amount of armor behind it.

Iowa vs Bismarck 1-on-1 would most likely result in both ships limping back to port after sustaining severe damage and high casualties.

[Arlo]

Iowa vs Bismarck 1-on-1 would most likely result in both ships limping back to port after sustaining severe damage and high casualties.

If that's what you gotta tell yourself .....