SM-82 CANGARO AXIS TRANSPORT/BOMBER its time....again

[jag88]

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[Karnak]

its funny  one guy mentioned numbers of aircraft built...the ta-152 only had about 70 produced,the p-47m had about 130 produced,and the f4u-4 and f4u-c were also made in very limited number...BUT WE HAVE THEM.so numbers as an argument,dosent work.

Unlike all of those the SM.82 would require 100% original artwork for a multi-engine, multi-station aircraft. 

I don't see anybody here saying the SM.82 is inappropriate to add, simply that there are much better choices for the time investment from HTC.

I'd love to see the SM.79-II show up on the front page of the site.

[gyrene81]

you suck Karnak...but i like the idea of the sm.79-II so no argument about that choice. 

[alpini13]

i would be happy to see the paras option on the he 111, would make it simple to have an axis transport fast.   other aircraft i think we need, russsian bomber,late german bomber,late japanese dive bomb and torpedo plane, british tanks,italian aircraft,french aircraft, candidates?  re-2005,g-55,pe-2,he-177,he-217,do219,

[earl1937]

Just to give the queen some use:

He 111 H-20/R1, or the H-23. 10-6 Fallschirmjägers.

(Image removed from quote.)

After all, thanks to this aircraft odds of seeing a German multiengine aircraft in the near future are slim, might as well give it some purpose.

I vote for one of these:



And wouldn't it be neat to fly this cockpit?

[jag88]

I vote for one of these:

(Image removed from quote.)

And wouldn't it be neat to fly this cockpit?

(Image removed from quote.)

It is nice to see that the Ecuadorian Annie is still flying, but for a quicker and easier solution a He-111 version would fit nicely and actually perform better, and it would give the aircraft more use as well.  Then HTs efforts could be aimed at other countries, maybe a Pe-8?  With a big Russian bomber in maybe people would stop bickering about an eventual He-177.

[Karnak]

The problem with the He111 being available as a transport in the MA is that it eliminates the C-47 as a reasonable choice.  The He111 is faster, tougher and armed.  I'd have no problem with the option being added for possible use in scenarios or the AvA if it were disabled in the MA.

The Ju52 and SM.82 offer a choice compared to the C-47A, that of trading speed for guns.  The Ju52 is a starker choice as the speed differential is more than twice that of the SM.82 compared to the C-47A.

[alpini13]

and thats why i think the sm-82 is THE choice, it is comparable to the c-47,and so both  would be used,and the sm-82 has other added beneifits.

[Karnak]

and thats why i think the sm-82 is THE choice, it is comparable to the c-47,and so both  would be used,and the sm-82 has other added beneifits.

Conversely it is why I think the Ju52 is the better choice as it creates a more distinct choice.  The SM.82 is only slightly slower than the C-47 while being armed.

However the biggest problem is that the SM.82 is not iconic in that role.  The two iconic troop transports from WWII are the C-47 and the Ju52.  The Ju52 covers troop transports for Germany, Italy and Finland and the C-47 covers troop transports for the USA, UK, USSR, Japan and Finland.

[earl1937]

I vote for one of these:

(Image removed from quote.)

And wouldn't it be neat to fly this cockpit?

(Image removed from quote.)

I still would like to know what those "water faucet" handles on the lower ride side of instrument panel are for?

[jag88]

The problem with the He111 being available as a transport in the MA is that it eliminates the C-47 as a reasonable choice.  The He111 is faster, tougher and armed.  I'd have no problem with the option being added for possible use in scenarios or the AvA if it were disabled in the MA.

The Ju52 and SM.82 offer a choice compared to the C-47A, that of trading speed for guns.  The Ju52 is a starker choice as the speed differential is more than twice that of the SM.82 compared to the C-47A.

The problem with that outlook is that it could be said or argued against adding ANY new aircraft...

The Ju-52 was the iconic para dropper of the war, but I wouldnt mind using the He-111 until HT comes around to making one, at least that way the He-111 woulndt be such a waste of a German bomber slot. 

To think that we got it instead of a Ju-188, Do-217 or He-177 makes me mad... 

[Karnak]

The problem with that outlook is that it could be said or argued against adding ANY new aircraft...

The uncontrolled addition of any aircraft that is better in every way than the existing aircraft filling that role, yes.  Controlled addition, no.

The Ju-52 was the iconic para dropper of the war, but I wouldnt mind using the He-111 until HT comes around to making one, at least that way the He-111 woulndt be such a waste of a German bomber slot. 

To think that we got it instead of a Ju-188, Do-217 or He-177 makes me mad... 

Ju52 and C-47.  D-Day and Market Garden cement the C-47's place as an iconic paratroop carrier as much as Crete and the invasion of France do so for the Ju52.

I think the Ju52 and C-47 would make a great pair as they offer a choice for the same reason the B-17G and Lancaster made a great pair.  To get something you have to give up something.

I understand the choice to model the He111 as there was much clamoring for it.  I personally would have rather seen the Ju188 added.  The Do217 seems the weakest of the three you mentioned as far as MA potential goes.  The He177 has a huge number of question marks hanging over it as the extensive threads on it have it being anywhere from 300 to 350mph and carrying from ~7,000lbs to ~13,500lbs, all of which make it hard to predict exactly how HTC would model it.

On the subject of Italian stuff, the blunt fact is that the Italians were completely out of their league in WWII, a chihuahua that picked a fight with three mastiffs.  This makes arguing for an extensive Italian unit list hard to do when there are still significant holes in the unit lists of the five big boys.  For my part if the SM.79-II and C.200 were added I'd consider the Italian set satisfactory for the vast majority of scenarios and adding the CR.42 and G.55 to those would effectively call it done.

[jag88]

The uncontrolled addition of any aircraft that is better in every way than the existing aircraft filling that role, yes.  Controlled addition, no.

The aircraft is ALREADY in the game, this is just one variant whose introduction would bring some use to an otherwise hangar queen.

Ju52 and C-47.  D-Day and Market Garden cement the C-47's place as an iconic paratroop carrier as much as Crete and the invasion of France do so for the Ju52.

I think the Ju52 and C-47 would make a great pair as they offer a choice for the same reason the B-17G and Lancaster made a great pair.  To get something you have to give up something.

Axis side, obviously...

I understand the choice to model the He111 as there was much clamoring for it.

Just for the BoB scenario, which was adequately covered by the Ju-88A4 which was not very different from the A1s and A5s of the early BoB, beyond that you got an aircraft useless for the MA when the LW has no mid or late bomber in the roster.  Have it drop paras and it would at least get some use, if that is bad for the C-47 so be it.

I personally would have rather seen the Ju188 added.  The Do217 seems the weakest of the three you mentioned as far as MA potential goes.

The 188 is sexier and better armed, the 217 is slightly faster and has a better carrying capacity (internal AND external).  It is a tough choice, but if we already have a Ju-88...

The He177 has a huge number of question marks hanging over it as the extensive threads on it have it being anywhere from 300 to 350mph and carrying from ~7,000lbs to ~13,500lbs, all of which make it hard to predict exactly how HTC would model it.

I just pay attention to the official numbers some of which I have often posted, and what I see is an aircraft with a performance similar to the Lanc and capable of carrying at least 5,6t of bombs.

On the subject of Italian stuff, the blunt fact is that the Italians were completely out of their league in WWII, a chihuahua that picked a fight with three mastiffs.  This makes arguing for an extensive Italian unit list hard to do when there are still significant holes in the unit lists of the five big boys.  For my part if the SM.79-II and C.200 were added I'd consider the Italian set satisfactory for the vast majority of scenarios and adding the CR.42 and G.55 to those would effectively call it done.

I would go further and say that of those the biplane is unnecessary.

[alpini13]

the sm-82 cangaru participated in 15 combat paratrooper drops in ww2. and bombed allied targets in 1940,1941,1942 and 1943.  it is a significant aircraft.  what you all seem to be forgetting here ,is the fact that the aircraft in the game were not picked because they were THE MOST significant aircraft in their class,if they were,many sub types would not be in game. and remember THIS is a game.if the ju-52 were added,it would end up being a hangar queen after the first month or so....why? TOO SLOW FOR THIS GAME.not too slow in real life,very significant and iconic in real life,this is not real life.its a game. the sm-82 has a top speed of 230-215,depending on source.it would be equal to the c47 in the transport role.it could also bomb for perk farming. it would also be used as a bomber in africa and malta and other med scenario's.......the ju-52 would not be used as a bomber in scenario's,the ju-52 would not be used to builb bomber perks,the ju-52 would be eaten alive in the main arena as a troop transport because it is half the spped as the c-47 and sm-82 and so the novelty of the ju-52 would wear off in a month or two after introduction. so why waste the resources on an aircraft like the ju-52,that wont be used to often after the first two months,when we can use those resources on an aircraft that will be used for multiple facets of the game throughout the games life. and that goes for any new addition to the game. we need aircraft and vehicles THAT WILL be used,not aircraft that wont be used. simply saying that we should add something because it is famous,even though in game it wont be useful,is a waste of time. ever wonder why we dont have the char-b? or panzerII. remember panzer IIs were still being used as late as 1944(lynx),that means the panzerII  has one of the longest military careers of any wwII tank,used in many major battles,but we still dont have it,it would not do well in game,unless we had many early war vehicles.for the british we have the lancaster...great plane, where are the other british bombers?...blenheim,Vickers Wellington (Royal Air Force,Handley Page Hampden & Hereford,Armstrong Whitworth Whitley,Short Stirling (Royal Air Force)....some of those served through ww2 and are significant, but they arnt in game...just an example.

[Vudu15]

The JU52 would be a cool aircraft to have but between this Itai bomber and a 52 Id have to say bring up the Cangaro.....and I'd like a Gloster Gladiator to shoot at it with.