bf.109-f4 vs f4u

[Gman]

Error, I would take him up on that if you`re available.  You'll learn an awful lot, and also learn WHAT you need to learn as well.

[mtnman]

Also, telling new players to use the climb power of the 109 is a bit vague IMO.  Just putting the nose up and hitting WEP can make you an even easier target in may situations, it's critical to know when and where you can use your climb advantage vs another plane, and it's very dependent on your opponents current E state, direction of flight compared to yours, and of course his distance.  

Very true.

This film may help a bit?  It's far from a "perfect" recipe for the task-at-hand, but it does go over some of the basic concepts and mistakes (the mistakes make the film more valuable, IMO).  This is one of those sessions where a 109 pilot and I went to the DA so I could show him how to kill me.

It's kind of telling (I think, anyway) that he kills me eventually, but he does it after he runs out of fuel, lol.  At that point though, he pretty much had me wrapped up and just dodging anyway.  There wasn't really much else I could do (and I didn't even know he'd run out of fuel).  He was in a position where he could keep enough pressure on me to keep me turning/dodging, at the same time forcing me to use WEP and gradually lower my altitude just to keep my speed up to a decent level for maneuvering.   

It's a cat/mouse affair, but he's dictating the terms of the fight, and is no danger of getting shot.  Me, on the other hand, all I can do is wait/hope he makes a mistake that allows me to escape or turn the tables.

I believe I also have film (or more) of him (and others) in the MA, where he fights me in more of a "normal" 109 vs. F4U manner, and dies fairly quickly as a result.

As you get better at the tactic, and learn the basic concepts of what allows you to control/dictate the fight, you'll of course see LOTS of opportunities to shorten the affair.  Get greedy though, and you'll get to lift a new plane out of the hanger...

http://www.4shared.com/file/rv0v4Ssp/Ardy_lesson.html

[-error]

error,

I'l have a rider spot open with me tonight if you wish to ride along while I train.  It almost always makes more sense to see it in person then try to picture it in your mind. 

I'll be in the TA at 9 central.

Alas, I'm living in +10 hours time zone to CST. I just can't make it at this time no matter how much I'd like it. 
Thank you very much for this offer.

[JOACH1M]

The problem is that no matter how I explain it to you it won't be as effective as if you just put some gaming hours in and challenge people to friendly 1v1's. IMO  that is the best way to learn how to use climbing and turning tactics in a situation you can find somewhat in the MA.

[-error]

BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?

[Scca]

BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?

http://www.gonzoville.com/charts/ as well as game info>plane performance on the HTC website.

[FLS]

BTW, what is the place where one can get those nice plane performance graphs?

When you are in the hanger you can right-click an aircraft for speed or climb charts. On the Aces High webpage you can see the same charts and compare two aircraft. http://www.hitechcreations.com/gameinfo/plane-performance
Note that the aircraft weight is listed. The information comes from the current game performance of the aircraft.

[Widewing]

A few years ago, I flew a series of duels against one of the game's better F4U drivers. I flew an F6F-5. The fights were pretty much a draw. Bored with that, I switched to a 109F-4.

The fights were no longer even. The 109 completely dominates the vertical. The other guy could do nothing, but bleed E and then have to evade. There is one thing to remember about 109s. Flaps out, nose high, WEP engaged.... It will not roll to the right. You either have to reduce power, or simply go left instead. If you don't, you'll hang there and lose any advantage.

More recently, I flew the same type of duel with another Corsair specialist. Avoid getting hit on the second merge, and the 109 will soon have the advantage. The F4U-1 series simply cannot hang with the 109F in the vertical. As opposed to this, years back I flew many duels with Urchin. He flew a Spit16 and I had an F4U-1D. Every fight, I was able to get guns on him first (tho not always kill shots). That's because you can bleed E much faster and beat the Spit on the first and second reversal. The problem that would arise was, if I didn't kill or badly damage the Spit early, Urchin would take the fight vertical and gain a significant advantage.

So, versus the F4U, fight your fight. Fight to the 109's strengths. Fight up hill, and be careful not to hang in space, nose high and flaps out. Keep the fight turning left whenever possible. Do these things and as mtnman pointed out, there is very little the F4U can do to counter. Just remember, that like any other fighter, you'll have to fly the 109F often to learn its behavior and capability.

[-error]

Thank you guys for precious input. The only thing now is to recall all this stuff when actually fighting.
 

[FLS]

You just need to practice it so it becomes habit. Let me know when you want another session.

[TequilaChaser]

A few years ago, I flew a series of duels against one of the game's better F4U drivers. I flew an F6F-5. The fights were pretty much a draw. Bored with that, I switched to a 109F-4.

The fights were no longer even. The 109 completely dominates the vertical. The other guy could do nothing, but bleed E and then have to evade. There is one thing to remember about 109s. Flaps out, nose high, WEP engaged.... It will not roll to the right. You either have to reduce power, or simply go left instead. If you don't, you'll hang there and lose any advantage

Good Morning WideWing,
I know you yourself are aware of the drawbacks of the bf109 series actually give up in turnrate/turnradius when turning/rolling right while at full throttle.... that if a player was to purposefully back of slightly on the throttle while turning toward the right, a player can actually improvve thier turnrate/turnradius. In doing so and applying this tip, a player flying the bf109f4 can amost maintain similar results they would normally achieve when maneuvering to the left...

This same tip works just as good and in the same manner when in or under the same circumstances when you might find yourself flying one of the F4U series planes in "ACES HIGH"

Hope this helps.

.«§»

TC

[Big Rat]

I can still remember when Widewing taught me why not to flat turn full flaps with a 109F on the deck with a 1a hog.  Lesson learned and stored on turn radius vs turn rate

 
BigRat

[Gman]

From what I understand from that BigRat, is that the F4U will eventually come around on the 109F4 if you end up on the deck near stall speed with flaps fully down, right?  In this specific example, what would the best advice be to a 109 pilot then as an alternative to trying to chase down the F4U in this manner?  If you don't get your shot by the time your airspeed is X, or flaps are down Y, do you go nose up and try and outclimb him at that point instead of continuing to turn and bleed E?

[FLS]

GMan the F4u turns faster with 2 notches flaps than with full flaps. The turn is smaller with full flaps but not faster. If your turn is smaller but slower then you want to turn head on to the bandit.

[FLS]

Good Morning WideWing,
I know you yourself are aware of the drawbacks of the bf109 series actually give up in turnrate/turnradius when turning/rolling right while at full throttle.... that if a player was to purposefully back of slightly on the throttle while turning toward the right, a player can actually improvve thier turnrate/turnradius. In doing so and applying this tip, a player flying the bf109f4 can amost maintain similar results they would normally achieve when maneuvering to the left...

This same tip works just as good and in the same manner when in or under the same circumstances when you might find yourself flying one of the F4U series planes in "ACES HIGH"

Hope this helps.

.«§»

TC

I have to question that theory TC. You are advising reducing torque vs maintaining full thrust against drag. You would increase roll rate to the right but rate and radius would logically degrade with a reduction in thrust. Cutting throttle is often useful but I don't see it benefiting turning unless you are above corner speed.