Trim while maneuvering in the vertical

[Skyyr]

Quick question - whenever transitioning to the vertical, such as in a zoom climb, I find that combat trim tries to match the control input trend and always ends up over-correcting, so that your aircraft can't stay vertical without putting a lot of corrective control input. I've found that turning combat trim off makes me fight the stick less, but then the trim configuration is less than optimal for medium to low-speed maneuvering (which is typical while maneuvering in the vertical).

Is there a way to quickly get neutral trim or capture the current input configuration and set that as the current trim? Hope that makes sense.

Thank you.

[FLS]

You can use Shift X to trim for pitch angle to reset trim for current speed. It's not generally fast enough for dogfighting. If you have analog trim controls you can set them for low speed trim and they will go to those settings whenever you turn Combat Trim off. The auto pilot modes and Combat Trim both override manual trim. Normally you trim for cruising speed and just correct with the stick and pedals when you're slower since speed and trim change constantly in the vertical.

[Drano]

CT is trying to compensate for neutral stick but I've found that as your speed decreases and you get fairly slow it tends to give a bit more pitch up than I'd like. It sounds to me like this is what's happening to you. If you're in the verticle using CT, you're slowing down quite a bit and you're having to fight it pushing the stick to keep the nose going straight up. The only way you're gonna defeat this is to map at least elevator trim to your stick so you can adjust it quickly to your preference. For this reason I don't generally use CT once I start fighting. For flying from here to there yeah sure. But once you start changing speeds it kinda becomes a problem affecting your turns and gunnery. I'll toggle CT quickly on and off at a given speed to get "centered" but that doesn't work well when you're slow. At that point add a little nose down trim and that'll be closer to "center". Try that and give it a few taps in that direction and see what works.

[Randy1]

Really good question.  I keep going back to CT but I should push myself to go manual.  I bet it is CT that is making my Hammerheads in a P38 sloppy.

[katanaso]

Really good question.  I keep going back to CT but I should push myself to go manual.  I bet it is CT that is making my Hammerheads in a P38 sloppy.

Probably.  Try fighting in the 38 with manual trim, perhaps setting the elevators just a hair below neutral.

I can always tell if I forget turn turn off Combat Trim because I end up going into an accelerated stall at some point.  When it's off, I'm fine.  For me, Combat Trim, in a fight, is a bane.

[bbosen]

Back when I first started out with the P38, I always used combat trim. I got the "feel" of it. I liked it, and I had pretty good success. Later though, after years of experience, I find I like life better without it. I still start out with it on by default, and it's generally still active throughout my climbout and long commutes, but just as soon as I get into any action, I find myself reaching for those convenient trim controls at the bottom of my joystick (instantly de-activating combat trim). From then on, I can just "feel" the need for manual trim, and it now seems completely natural to use it as necessary whenever I can feel my joystick pressing against my wishes. It took me several years to get to this point, and I suspect that's the pattern with most folks. In the beginning, you probably won't want to mess with trim controls at all. Just let Combat Trim help you out. It's beneficial most of the time.

With experience, however, you'll gradually become aware that sometimes it is fighting you. At that point, you'll want to get a joystick that makes trim buttons convenient during the frenzied moments of flight. As you use them to disable Combat Trim, you will feel your aircraft becoming more "alive" in response to the ebb and flow of air over your wings. You'll learn to love manual trim.
 

[Auger]

Combat trim really only has one purpose: quick trim for your current flight parameters.  If the bird is a little squirrelly at your current speed, tap combat trim on then turn it off again.  That will true things up and make center stick stay mostly straight and level.  If you leave it on it will do things you don't want it to do at the edges of the speed envelope.

I'll also leave it on when ground pounding in an IL-2 or A-20.  It makes for a more stable bomb/gun pass.  Otherwise keep it off.  You'll be much happier with plane handling.

[Skyyr]

Combat trim really only has one purpose: quick trim for your current flight parameters.  If the bird is a little squirrelly at your current speed, tap combat trim on then turn it off again.  That will true things up and make center stick stay mostly straight and level.  If you leave it on it will do things you don't want it to do at the edges of the speed envelope.

I'll also leave it on when ground pounding in an IL-2 or A-20.  It makes for a more stable bomb/gun pass.  Otherwise keep it off.  You'll be much happier with plane handling.

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if it was passive or active - your explanation makes sense. Thank you (and everyone else) who replied.

[Changeup]

Combat trim really only has one purpose: quick trim for your current flight parameters.  If the bird is a little squirrelly at your current speed, tap combat trim on then turn it off again.  That will true things up and make center stick stay mostly straight and level.  If you leave it on it will do things you don't want it to do at the edges of the speed envelope.

I'll also leave it on when ground pounding in an IL-2 or A-20.  It makes for a more stable bomb/gun pass.  Otherwise keep it off.  You'll be much happier with plane handling.

+1.  It's what I do

[Scca]

Great advise Auger. For me when I enter a fight that looks to be turning slow, I turn CT off at 200 and leave it off till I die, win, or I notice excessive stick pressure needed to maintain a direction I want to head.

[DmonSlyr]

Im different, I always leave it on. I don't like my plane to be out of trim. Manual goes out of wack in AH. If you do a sharp turn and/or vert the trim will compensate and  offset for the rest of the fight and can potentially affect turning pattern performance. That's just me. Keeping combat trim on for me keeps the plane balanced at all times.

[hotcoffe]

So for a beginner who has no idea what Trim is about can any one explain everything from begining in a Trim for dummies style please : )

[McShark]

Quick question - whenever transitioning to the vertical, such as in a zoom climb, I find that combat trim tries to match the control input trend and always ends up over-correcting, so that your aircraft can't stay vertical without putting a lot of corrective control input. I've found that turning combat trim off makes me fight the stick less, but then the trim configuration is less than optimal for medium to low-speed maneuvering (which is typical while maneuvering in the vertical).

Is there a way to quickly get neutral trim or capture the current input configuration and set that as the current trim? Hope that makes sense.

Thank you.

Anyone ever thought about the `Trim Set Tab`?

It adjusts trim to the maneuver / speed u do at that moment.

Have mine next to combat trim toggle on my stick.

Turn off CT go in a turn, vert whatever and hit trim set during the pull. Engage CT to get rid of it.

It puts ur trim to where its needed without adjusting it all the time.

[DmonSlyr]

So for a beginner who has no idea what Trim is about can any one explain everything from begining in a Trim for dummies style please : )

I would just use CT. Keep your plane steady and learn the basics of ACM first. If you don't learn how to actually maneuver, trim doesn't really mean anything. Combat trim keeps the plane balanced and trimmed at all times. I find the only time I really need to use it, is when I dive and my controls freeze I hit up trim like no other to keep from hitting the ground. Also use if for when missing half a wing and need to pull it to one side of the other.

I find that If I am fighting and go into a vert loop fight for example, I use to set up elevator to potentially get more lift. but what I really figured out, was when I finally got on their 6, you had to re-trim or else aiming would be such a pain.

[Drano]

I would just use CT. Keep your plane steady and learn the basics of ACM first. If you don't learn how to actually maneuver, trim doesn't really mean anything. Combat trim keeps the plane balanced and trimmed at all times. I find the only time I really need to use it, is when I dive and my controls freeze I hit up trim like no other to keep from hitting the ground. Also use if for when missing half a wing and need to pull it to one side of the other.

I find that If I am fighting and go into a vert loop fight for example, I use to set up elevator to potentially get more lift. but what I really figured out, was when I finally got on their 6, you had to re-trim or else aiming would be such a pain.

You're giving this guy some contradictory information V. Check this out.

When you said in your earlier post:

"Keeping combat trim on for me keeps the plane balanced at all times. "

That's not true if you're finding that (per the above quote) in dives you have to trim the nose up and when slow your gunnery is messed up. The reason is that combat trim keeps the plane balanced NOT at all times but at MOST times. In the extreme speed ranges it's not even close and that's why you have to trim nose up in dives and nose down when slow. I think you're experiencing it but the light bulb hasn't gone off. In the middle speed range of any of the planes it's absolutely just about dead on. Not really making any sort of turns in that range you're good to go. If you're OK with pushing your stick in slow turns that's your prerogative but it's not very intuitive. I'd rather be pulling but that's just me.

The OP is experiencing CT forcing his nose up and up and up when he's slow in the verticle. It's wanting to push his nose up and over when he just wants to continue going up. The solution is to ditch CT and trim manually when slow otherwise push the stick forward.

Hope that helped.