Author Topic: comparing  (Read 7032 times)

Offline Arbiter

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Re: comparing
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2014, 07:08:33 PM »
Exactly.  Why?

Because 109 drivers are all girly men in who wear leotards and listen to Berry Manilow.

 :bolt:
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Offline BnZs

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Re: comparing
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2014, 08:50:11 PM »
This sounds like a rule of thumb.
This is not a rule of thumb. It is the mathematical formula for accelerated stall speed. It is no more a "rule of thumb" than A squared+B squared=C squared is a "rule of thumb" in relation to right triangles.

I do not believe the stall limit/aoa is the same for every wing. :salute
You are of course correct here, but that is irrelevant to the topic. Stall speed is simply the minimum airspeed required for the plane to produce enough lift to keep its own weight in the air. So on and so forth with accelerated stall speed.

Turn rate and radius for a plane at any given moment will be defined by Gs and airspeed, NOT by the critical AoA of the airfoil. Given the same airspeed and the same G load, any two planes will have the same rate and radius of turn. Being able to produce more G at lower airspeed is better. Best possible turn rate and radius is achieved at corner velocity, the lowest speed at which the airplane can pull maximum allowable Gs. The critical relationship is the one between the lift available to the airplane and the weight of the airplane.

To give you a practical example, many WWI airplanes have relatively bad airfoils that are little more than flat plates. This is because the science of aerodynamics was not as well understood when many of these planes were designed. Compared to the airfoil of say, a Hawker Hurricane, they are really inefficient. None the less, these WWI have a lower stall speed and will turn in a smaller circle than a Hurricane simply because the loading on the wings is so light.

The airplane that has a lower stall speed WILL have the better instantaneous turn rate and radius at corner velocity, assuming both aircraft are operating under the same G limitation. It is very likely to have a smaller sustained turn radius, because turn radius is so strongly a function of stall speed. Sustained turn rate is another matter, an airplane with a heavier wing loading and higher stall speed can sometimes still have a better sustained turn rate via having a lot of thrust and the ability to sustain more Gs in a turn.
 :salute

"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline BnZs

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Re: comparing
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2014, 09:22:51 PM »
If done close to correct, a jug driver can bleed his 109 or 51 into a sustained turn fight slow.  They'll lose because they aren't as stable slow.  That's an a/c function, not a pilot skill.

I've done a good bit of duels and furball lake encounters with 109ers in the D-11. Last time was with Tongs early in the week, in point of fact. The Jug is eventually pretty dead at typical MA low alts if the 109 man doesn't make gross mistakes. Even the K4 can out-rate and out-radius the D-11. Indeed the Jug's roll rate, ability to hit the brakes, and toughness can be used to go for deadly overshoots, but the 109s massive vertical performance will get any smart pilot out of trouble and allow him to reset even if he makes a minor miscalculation. This is in a duel of course, I'm sure under MA conditions impatience leads to a lot of superior maneuvering planes eating 8x.50 caliber snapshots after overshooting good Jug drivers.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Changeup

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Re: comparing
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2014, 09:56:24 PM »
I've done a good bit of duels and furball lake encounters with 109ers in the D-11. Last time was with Tongs early in the week, in point of fact. The Jug is eventually pretty dead at typical MA low alts if the 109 man doesn't make gross mistakes. Even the K4 can out-rate and out-radius the D-11. Indeed the Jug's roll rate, ability to hit the brakes, and toughness can be used to go for deadly overshoots, but the 109s massive vertical performance will get any smart pilot out of trouble and allow him to reset even if he makes a minor miscalculation. This is in a duel of course, I'm sure under MA conditions impatience leads to a lot of superior maneuvering planes eating 8x.50 caliber snapshots after overshooting good Jug drivers.

All true.  My point was that turn rates are not the only way to evaluate planes because we fly them much different in game than they did in RL.  For folks to critique the RL performance vs game performance is only relevant if we flew the same way, which we don't.
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Offline BnZs

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Re: comparing
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2014, 10:12:18 PM »
All true.  My point was that turn rates are not the only way to evaluate planes because we fly them much different in game than they did in RL.  For folks to critique the RL performance vs game performance is only relevant if we flew the same way, which we don't.

I'm not critiquing Pony vrs. Jug performance because the Jug can pull a neat scissors, which no doubt was possible in R/L as well, what with it's rather excellent roll rate. I'm critiquing the fact that their relative turn performance as tested in game seems to be the opposite of their relative turn performance as tested in real life. That is apples to apples and not so easily explained away.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Bear76

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Re: comparing
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2014, 04:12:23 AM »
Because 109 drivers are all girly men in who wear leotards and listen to Berry Manilow.

 :bolt:

No that's 110 drivers  :lol

Offline Arbiter

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Re: comparing
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2014, 10:08:13 AM »
No that's 110 drivers  :lol

Says the girl with the short skirt and hairy legs in his Yak 3.  :rofl
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Offline Bear76

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Re: comparing
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2014, 06:08:09 PM »
Says the girl with the short skirt and hairy legs in his Yak 3.  :rofl

Fulcrum you really need to work on your shade technique. Much to easy to spot.

Offline Arbiter

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Re: comparing
« Reply #98 on: February 07, 2014, 08:16:13 PM »
Fulcrum you really need to work on your shade technique. Much to easy to spot.

  :lol

You have a real hard-on for this Fulcrum guy, Poo Bear!? That's the second time you've said that to me.

That's so cute you are searching for him too!  He break your heart or something?!   :rofl

Muppets.  God love them.  They never change.    :aok
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Offline Bear76

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Re: comparing
« Reply #99 on: February 07, 2014, 08:25:41 PM »
  :lol

You have a real hard-on for this Fulcrum guy, Poo Bear!? That's the second time you've said that to me.

That's so cute you are searching for him too!  He break your heart or something?!   :rofl

Muppets.  God love them.  They never change.    :aok


If you're going to shade you shouldn't say and do the same things. Way too obvious and pathetic.

Offline Arbiter

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Re: comparing
« Reply #100 on: February 07, 2014, 08:45:19 PM »
If you're going to shade you shouldn't say and do the same things. Way too obvious and pathetic.

You just keep thinking I'm your boyfriend if it makes you happy!   ;)
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: comparing
« Reply #101 on: February 07, 2014, 11:09:13 PM »

It's only a matter if time before we have TIE fighters  :aok



I'll continue to look forward to my TIE fighter.

Yeah...I've seen the drawings from the non-canon / extended universe stuff.  Some of it is good, some (like the X-TIE) not so much.


Yup.  I can see it now...a TIE cockpit with S-foils.



Interesting.  As someone who still considers the original TIE Fighter as one of the greatest games ever I am excited. 





Don't worry… no one knows your Fulcrum.


Offline Arbiter

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Re: comparing
« Reply #102 on: February 08, 2014, 12:56:53 AM »
OK.  Ya got me!  Gosh almighty I gave myself away by using a single Star Wars reference!  Golly!  Everyone knows that only FULCRUM watched those movies!  :lol

Think whatever ya like, guys.   :lol :salute 
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Offline kappa

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Re: comparing
« Reply #103 on: February 08, 2014, 07:29:33 AM »
- TWBYDHAS

Offline Pepprr

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