Latest Russian fighter demo

[GScholz]

lol... 
when you watching TV , do you consider the TV as your information source or the channel you are watching as your information source ?!

You watch TV? ... Do you actually believe anything they tell you on the "idiot box"?

It's even in the dictionary...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idiot+box

[hotcoffe]

You watch TV? ... Do you actually believe anything they tell you on the "idiot box"?

It's even in the dictionary...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idiot+box

lol man... you are really funny...

[Gman]

I'm not getting into the F35 capability argument, but I will say something regarding the F22.  Hindsight being what it is, it's a huge shame that the USA didn't offer the F22 to allied countries like those in Europe, Japan, and most importantly, the northern part of the NORAD defense zone, Canada.

Canada has dropped out of the F35 participation/deal, for many of the reasons Eagl mentioned, but mainly because it isn't optimized for a2a and long range patrol/interception, something that is important when you have a huge area to cover like the entire northern part of the continent.  The F22 would have been a lot better fit, not perfect, but much better had it been "allowed" to be sold to Canada, yet all the inquiries were poo-poo'd ten years ago, and Canada was stuck with the F35, which it spat out after swallowing.  We wanted 100 F22's.  Japan wanted more.  Can you imagine not only how much cheaper the F22 would have been, but how much more effective the USA's primary allies would have been if there were 350 F22's available in a time of a large war, not just 150 or so.  

One of my friends from high school has flown 6 modern fighters, over 2000 hrs in the Hornet and gone through Empire test pilot school in the UK, flying the Typhoon, Grippen, Navy F18E/F on exchange as well.  From what he's told me the F22 is extremely tough in a2a ex's for a number of reasons, and if he could pick any plane to fly in if his life was on the line that was the one.  

Now, years later after the F22 has been long in service, the "new" fighter looks less capable and less stealthy to boot than the "older" one.  WTH?!  As mentioned already, the F35 is going to end up costing more, a lot more than the F22.  It's a shame they don't put a fraction of the money being put into the F35 back into the F22 program, and speed track the a2g software/avionics/etc, and just have it perform the same job, better, and for less money, IMO.  

-edit, Also, the OP video, those are R/C Jets, models I think made by FlyEagleJets out of Taiwan, they look like  J10s.  Google Flyeaglejets, their models are great large scale jets, and it's hugely popular in Taiwan, the police close down parts of certain roadways for clubs to fly these things there.

http://www.flyeaglejet.com/en/J103D.4.85.html

[Rich46yo]

you say so but most of the experts calling F22 and F35 lemon planes...

What experts?

This is typical Russian. Write up a bunch of BS specs and then go send a few to an air show and have them dance around in maneuvers that are completely irrelevant to modern jet combat and hope they get a sale from some dummy that cant, or wont, buy western.

In videos like this you cant see RCS. You cant see radars, you cant see networkcentricy, you cant see engine reliability, or sortie rates, or mechanical reliability, or computing power, or computing code, or IR tracking, or EW systems, and the fusion of all this with weapons into a package that will "see" the enemy long before they see us.

[GScholz]

Now, years later after the F22 has been long in service, the "new" fighter looks less capable and less stealthy to boot than the "older" one.  WTH?!  

The F-35 is not the "new" fighter over the "old" F-22. The F-35 is to the F-22 what the F-16 was to the F-15.

F-15/22 = air superiority fighter. F-16/35 light fighter/bomb truck.

The F-35 is no more designed to be superior to the F-22 than the F-16 was to the F-15. I.e. not at all.

[DaveBB]

The F-16 and F-15 combination is what as known as the "high-low" concept.  For every F-15, there are approximately four F-16s.  The F-15 is supposed to be much higher performance but more expensive than the lower performance yet lower cost F-16.  Pierre Sprey is not a fan of this concept either.

[hotcoffe]

f35 is Bradly story all over again ... the plot is the same just the actors are different...

[GScholz]

Hardly.

[Masherbrum]

lol... 
when you watching TV , do you consider the TV as your information source or the channel you are watching as your information source ?!

This is about you taking shots in the dark.   Eagl, Mace, WW and others have lived Military Avaition as an MOS.  I'll take that over some youtube video.   

[Tank-Ace]

The F-16 and F-15 combination is what as known as the "high-low" concept.  For every F-15, there are approximately four F-16s.  The F-15 is supposed to be much higher performance but more expensive than the lower performance yet lower cost F-16.  Pierre Sprey is not a fan of this concept either.

Why? The F-16 isn't necessarily a bad fighter. Besides, with BVR, exactly how good is good enough?

[GScholz]

The F-16 isn't a bad fighter at all. It is very capable. The F-35 will be too. Neither will match a dedicated air superiority fighter like the F-15, F-22 or Su-27 in pure A2A performance... They were never meant to.

[Gman]

The F-35 is not the "new" fighter over the "old" F-22

I'm not talking about the technology, just the time frame - an 8 year old car can still be better at a task than a brand new one, depending on the cars, that's the point I was making.  The USAF/Pentagon marketed the F35 to the RCAF as "new and better technology", "superior" as you put it  than the F22, with far easier skin to maintain in our climate, and equally capable of air superiority, interception, and air to ground tasks.   By your statement, you disagree with this sentiment don't you, if the F35 isn't "new" compared with the "old" F22, right, and I agree, and that's the point I'm making.  That's one among many excuses they used in offering the F35 over the F22, which was my point, not that the F35 is newer or more capable tech.  In terms of foreign sales, the F35 was and is being offered as the most current and new technology, specifically over the F22 and every other Gen 4+ fighter.

The Pentagon tried to sell the F35 as a capable interceptor for covering the northern NORAD area, obviously, since it's the only aircraft they tried to sell the RCAF, barring the F22 from being offered.  By your own statements, the F35=F16/bomb truck, not being designed to be "superior" to the F22....what do you think then of it being offered for sale in the long range, and I mean LONG range interception role, the primary role of any RCAF fighter?

As for the Russian "super maneuverable" fighters, Mace on this bbs put it best  IMO - all that fancy flopping around looks great at airshows, but the aircraft while doing these as it very slow airspeeds, and it just makes it easier to pump an Aim9x into a target that is suspended in air doing cobras and other high AoA maneuvers.  It looks great, impresses aviation writers and bbs fighter enthusiasts, but isn't all that useful in modern a2s combat, in fact, it's pretty much the opposite.  

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345902.msg4570617.html#msg4570617

Mace also has some good info defending the F35 as well.  I said at the start I wasn't getting into the F35 capability, and this is the main reason - much of it is still being kept secret IMO.  I'm not saying it won't be capable, I think it's going to turn out ok for what it's designed for, my only point is that for my countries needs, the F22 is far, far more capable primarily due to range and supercruising capability.

[GScholz]

As you say the F-22 is not an option... They won't sell it. You have to compare the F-35 to the other alternatives that are available to you. Just like we did.


After extensive talks with various manufacturers these were our options:










What would you choose?

[Arbiter]

The Eurofighter Typhoon.

[Tank-Ace]

For a European military, I'd say the Gripen may actually be the best fighter out there right now.