Author Topic: Malaysian airlines 777 missing  (Read 20674 times)

Offline icepac

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #225 on: March 15, 2014, 06:42:10 PM »
Higher than you think.

I'll bet tupac has carried on a cell phone conversation pretty high up.

Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #226 on: March 15, 2014, 07:13:34 PM »
Over the Indian Ocean?

Exactly how many cell towers do you imagine are located there?
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Offline JimmyC

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #227 on: March 15, 2014, 07:17:07 PM »
Has anyone considered the possibility that it is not the plane that is the focus of the hijacking. I understand that the passenger list is now being scrutinized for their potential value. I am wondering about the 20 employees of the semiconductor company. Seems to be a good way to get 20 people into a confined space and keep them captive until they can be herded off in a remote location and then detained indefinitely for their knowledge and expertise.

Perhaps the triple 7 is merely collateral damage and the plotters couldn't care less if they damage it upon landing just as long as it gets down with everyone alive and well.

I'm not saying I stand behind this theory. I'm asking the forum body if this is a possibility if not a probability.

Totally plausible and in my mind probably the whole reason..
makes sense to me ..nab 20 top scientists in military technology and your back in the game..
I cant see why this is not getting more coverage..seems the only thing that makes sense to me.
send in James bond now...there is an Evil mastermind that needs a good whoopin...
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Offline phatzo

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #228 on: March 15, 2014, 07:24:40 PM »
Over the Indian Ocean?

Exactly how many cell towers do you imagine are located there?
government officials on Christmas Islands are making a list and checking it twice.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #229 on: March 15, 2014, 07:43:15 PM »

   This was my thought also except I dont think ransom is the motive or we would have heard something by now!  I'm afraid they may have much more serious plans than ransom. All you need is some old medical equipment and to explode the A/C over your intended target area.

  Then again we're looking for an excuse to get the industrial military oven up and cooking!


    :salute
Sorry, I don't think you would be able to fly into New York, London or Tokyo as a made up flight.  You'd be intercepted and, if uncooperative with ATC instructions, shot down.
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Offline Megalodon

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #230 on: March 15, 2014, 08:20:29 PM »
My bet, it's in the Gobi Desert under camouflage and we'll hear from the hijackers soon with ransom demands.


 I think southern Thailand... bin laden freaks are there and they steal planes... as we all no.  There were some pretty good hostages on the plane as well.
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #231 on: March 15, 2014, 11:24:44 PM »
OK, you guys ready for a real (lengthy and detailed) theory?

First, there is little evidence that supports the idea that this plane is at the bottom of an ocean.  The idea is somewhat plausible; however, for it to be true the aircraft would have needed to turn 90 to 120 degrees to the South after overflying two navigation fixes in the Strait of Malacca which clearly showed it on a course to the NW not SW and that it was probably being navigated by someone who knew what he was doing.  Assuming the aircraft did turn South and fly for five more hours then it is indeed on the bottom of the ocean since there are only two islands (Christmas and Cocos) in that part of the Southern Indian Ocean and it isn't at either (and it certainly couldn’t reach Antarctica).  So, why would the aircraft turn South given that there was no place to go?  If the intent was to simply crash it then why bother with any of this?  If the plane was essentially "unmanned" then how did it make two major heading changes (the first turn to SW after the transponder was turned off and the second turn to the NW in the Straight of Malacca) seen on the Malaysian radars and, if not controlled by that point,  who would have turned the aircraft to the South to send it into the Southern Indian Ocean?  No, there's no evidence supporting a course to the SW which leaves us with NW, the final observed course as the plane left the radar coverage in the Strait of Malacca.

The Indian Ocean INMARSAT satellite received the aircraft's "pings" and is capable of measuring the signal’s elevation angle relative to the satellite but is not capable of giving a line of bearing.  The final “pings” at 8:11am were on the 40 degree elevation arc from the INMARSAT satellite which means that the aircraft had to be somewhere on that arc when it went down (or landed).  That arc stretches from Northern Laos through Tibet and the Gobi Desert to its furthest end in Kyrgystan which is also the absolute maximum range of the aircraft given the fuel on board.  All of this arc is overland.  Look along that arc and you'll also see that it's all mountainous or forested except for parts of Tibet and the Gobi.  

The final "ping" was at 8:11am Malaysia time and five-and-a-half hours after the plane was last seen on radar headed NW over Pulau Perak island in the Strait.  How far would the airliner have flown between 2:40am and 8:11am?  Well, airliners typically cruise at about .85 Mach which equals (at 35,000 ft) 7.6 miles a minute in no wind conditions so we're looking at a maximum range of about 2,500 miles in that 5.5 hours.  The straight line distance from Pulau Perak to where the 40 degree satellite arc crosses the Gobi is about 2,300NM so, theoretically, the plane would have overflown the desert but that’s in a “no wind” condition and assumes it flew directly from Pulau Perak to its landing spot. The reality is that it would have been flying into a headwind for at least part of the flight which would have reduced its groundspeed and therefore the distance flown in 5.5 hours.  Assuming the plane continued NW for a while to ensure it stayed clear of the ground radars in Thailand and the Malay Peninsula before turning more Northerly the distance flown would also be longer than a direct route and, once arriving, it would still have to slow down, locate the landing site, probably reconnoiter the site, and then set up for a landing all of which would have taken some time.  All of this is perfectly feasible.  It’s certainly possible that the plane made it as far as Kyrgystan but given that Kyrgystan is mountainous it would be more reasonable to land it on a dry lakebed in the Gobi especially given that the Gobi is the largest desert in Asia (measuring 1,000 by 500 miles) with lots of places to land a plane while being very sparsely inhabited by nomads and free from prying eyes.  Also, let’s not forget that while the aircraft took off in the middle of the night the landing would have been right after sunrise making a visual landing on something like a dry lakebed a simple proposition.

So, why no ransom call yet?  Well, it’s possible that the airplane simply ran out of fuel and didn’t make it to the intended landing area (even though it was over land) or that it crashed on landing making any ransom demand irrelevant.  But, it’s even more probable that the hijackers would need time to camouflage the plane, clean up the landing area (get rid of tire tracks for instance) and, since they wouldn’t want to be located electronically,  they wouldn’t have simply phoned in a ransom demand from the site.  Someone would have to move well away from the plane say, to South America, and they’d have to be able to furnish some sort of proof of life.  Also, although nothing has been said publicly, would it surprise anyone if the investigators have received all sorts of bizarre claims that they wouldn’t make public?  Maybe they’ve already been contacted but haven’t had reason to believe that particular claim.  The hijackers would have to provide “proof of life” to be taken seriously which means they’d have to physically transport some evidence from the landing site through a courier to another location and set up a safe means of transmitting the demand and proof to the target.  If you stop and think about it, given that they went to great lengths to avoid tracking of the aircraft (but obviously didn’t not know about the “pings”) they probably assumed that there would be almost no chance that the landing site could be located so what’s the rush?  Actually a delay would help increase doubt as to the plane's possible location as the longer they waited the more likely it is that the plane could have been refueled and moved.  From a practical standpoint, the passengers would be in the middle of the largest deserts in the world so where would they escape to?  All the hijackers would need to do is keep a small cadre on-site to control the passengers and give them minimal rations to sustain them.

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Anyone want to make any bets?
Mace
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #232 on: March 15, 2014, 11:57:57 PM »
My bet is that they were going to crash it into a skyscraper and it was shot down and the official story will be that it crashed, maybe with some heroic passenger interference.
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #233 on: March 15, 2014, 11:58:44 PM »
Oh and what are we betting?
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #234 on: March 16, 2014, 12:02:46 AM »
Mace2004, exactly who's airspace are you suggesting they penetrated undetected and unchallenged?
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #235 on: March 16, 2014, 01:00:27 AM »
Sorry, I don't think you would be able to fly into New York, London or Tokyo as a made up flight.  You'd be intercepted and, if uncooperative with ATC instructions, shot down.


  Exactly and that would be the point!    However after reading Mace's latest post it makes sense to me now why we havent heard anything!  I hope Mace is correct and it's a ransom deal. The other possibilities make me very nervous.  Medical isotopes are readily available in bulk and they could cause a real long lasting disaster.



    :salute

Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #236 on: March 16, 2014, 01:03:14 AM »
Next on Doomsday Preppers...
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #237 on: March 16, 2014, 01:48:14 AM »
Mace2004, exactly who's airspace are you suggesting they penetrated undetected and unchallenged?
That's a good question but it's easily answered because it's based a couple of assumptions.  First, that all countries have radar coverage remotely similar to that in the US and Europe and second, that all countries worry about intrusion into their airspace (or would even notice if it happened and, if they noticed, be able to do anything about it.)

There are many air routes in the world with absolutely no en route radar coverage and where ATC still relies on aircraft to report navigation fixes over the radio and many third-world countries have little more than terminal area radar service.  India probably has some of the better ATC and military radar coverage in that part of the world but their military radars (which would use raw radar to look for intrusions) are primarily based in the West facing Pakistan and possibly in the North facing Northeast toward China.  Bangladesh and Myanmar are far less likely to have good coverage (and what they have may not be well maintained) or have much of a need to detect intruders so would they even notice a non-squawking aircraft (that's an aircraft without a transponder?)  Do you think they’re particularly worried about a surprise attack from the sea?  As a relevant third-world example, I flew quite a bit in the Philippines out of NAS Cubi Point and we were always advised to contact the ATC Center when doing so but half the time they didn't even answer the radio and when we were able to get them to answer they could hardly ever locate us even though we always squawked (had our transponder on).  Also, remember that the Malaysian and Vietnamese ATC completely lost track of the aircraft when it turned its transponder off and it appears that the Malaysian military didn’t react to the raw radar track with a challenge or launch of any aircraft.  Actually, given the delay between the "loss" of the aircraft and when news came out about the military track of it it appears they may not have even known it was there until after the fact when they looked at recordings.

As for China, its ATC is probably located primarily in the East given that's there's almost nothing in the West (except the Gobi Desert) and, of course, it would also rely primarily on aircraft transponders.  Then there's the fact that their Southwest border is the Himalayas, hardly an easy area to spot a non-squawking aircraft with raw radar even if you're looking for one and besides, what would an intruder attack in the West?

I’d say that the airliner probably made landfall over Bangladesh and began its descent on the northern side of the Himalayas over Tibet where the Chinese wouldn't see it and then into the Gobi.  I'd also say that these countries are scrambling right now to find any record of a non-squawking aircraft transiting their airspace.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 01:51:32 AM by Mace2004 »
Mace
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #238 on: March 16, 2014, 02:06:22 AM »
My bet is that they were going to crash it into a skyscraper and it was shot down and the official story will be that it crashed, maybe with some heroic passenger interference.

Shot down by whom?
Mace
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Malaysian airlines 777 missing
« Reply #239 on: March 16, 2014, 02:12:18 AM »
India has complete radar coverage of their entire border, including their coastline. They have in fact multi-sensor coverage of most of it, not only radar.
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