If You Like 109's

[Nimrod45]

It seems to me like the air pressure itself would be the dampening mechanism for the slats.

[Ardy123]

G-2 was the best 109.... k4 most practical for the MA.

[Brooke]

Your ice cube analogy is ok, but without the aerodynamic air pressure changing, utterly irrelevant.

Regardless of anything you want to argue me on, it should absolutely be possible to gently deploy the slats in flight, which it isn't in the realm of AcesHigh.

Anyone with a background in engineering or physics would disagree with you on your first point.  The math of the dynamics is the same.

As for the second point, regardless of any analysis of the physics of the situation (which I am very comfortable with), there are lots of quotes from 109 pilots about the slats popping open.  Do you have any descriptions on the slats moving gradually, or is that your own feeling that they should?

[Debrody]

E: poor response to the controls, feels heavy and sluggish, so much different from anything else
F: nimble little killer, balanced all around and flies like a dream. The torque is a bit weak though.
G2: just like an F on steroids, somewhat heavyer though
G6: steadier and heavier G2.
G14: G6 with a huge wep. Never could fly it, the huge torque kick when engaging the wep makes the post-stall moves difficult.
K4: meet the monster. The most predictable, also it can do some torque moves other planes cannot even dream about. Its snap-stall is unmatched.
D9: K4 with less turn rate

[GScholz]

  I noticed in the pix you posted that the AS version is rated for C3 fuel but the K4 is rated for B4 fuel.

    I thought the K4's used C3 but I'm not totally sure,just seems strange,I guess the C3 fuel was used to resist detonation at higher alts???


  

The vast majority of K-4s used B4 fuel simply because the BMW powered 190A's needed the C3 so they got priority. The 109's Mercedes Benz could run on B4 at lower boost pressures, so they had to make due with the lower grade fuel. The K-4's DB 605D engine could use both B4 and C3 fuel; changing between fuels was just a matter of tuning the engine and could be done by the squadron mechanics. In AH we have the B4 variant with 1800 hp. With C3 fuel it would have had 2000 hp.

I've long advocated the inclusion of C3 fueled 109s, as well as 150 octane fuel for select allied late-war rides. They would all be perked of course, but it would be very nice to have them anyways. In addition Bf 109E-4/N with C3 and Spitfire I/II with 100 octane would be nice to have.

C3 was very resistant to detonation yes, close to or on par with allied 100/150 octane avgas. Altitude is not relevant, only the boost pressure. With C3 the engine could be run at higher manifold pressures. I.e. more fuel and air per piston stroke makes more hp. MW50 (50/50 water and alcohol) injection was also used as an anti-knocking agent allowing higher boost pressures.

[Someguy63]

E: poor response to the controls, feels heavy and sluggish, so much different from anything else
F: nimble little killer, balanced all around and flies like a dream. The torque is a bit weak though.
G2: just like an F on steroids, somewhat heavyer though
G6: steadier and heavier G2.
G14: G6 with a huge wep. Never could fly it, the huge torque kick when engaging the wep makes the post-stall moves difficult.
K4: meet the monster. The most predictable, also it can do some torque moves other planes cannot even dream about. Its snap-stall is unmatched.
D9: K4 with less turn rate

A lot less??
I can't fly 190's very we'll at all.

[LCADolby]

Anyone with a background in engineering or physics would disagree with you on your first point.  The math of the dynamics is the same.

As for the second point, regardless of any analysis of the physics of the situation (which I am very comfortable with), there are lots of quotes from 109 pilots about the slats popping open.  Do you have any descriptions on the slats moving gradually, or is that your own feeling that they should?

My engineering background ended 10 years ago. The problem with your analogy is that is momentum, which is why I believe it to be irrelevant, the aero dynamics involved are missing.

Yes pilots do mention the pop, but it's always the same, during combat. In combat the pilots pushed the plane around reducing the air pressure dramatically.

Either way, as I said, it should absolutely be possible to gently deploy the slats in flight, which it isn't in the realm of AcesHigh.

Have you ever seen the film of the slats being maintained? There's a chap sliding them.
Have you seen a film of the slats in a wind tunnel? They don't just pop out when tilted.

[hotcoffe]

blabla....

[FLS]

Slats deploy purely in response to AOA. G load is not a factor. The air pressure at the slat changes with increased AOA and the slats pop out.

[LCADolby]

Thanks FLS, the sky is blue.

[FLS]

The only exception I've seen to quick deployment is Franz Stigler saying that at high altitudes near the stall there is partial deployment.

Slat deployment is often associated with speeds and radial g but it's just the critical AOA that would otherwise cause a stall that causes the slats to suddenly pop out and increase max AOA and CLmax.

[Devil 505]

The real problem with the slats on the 109 is not modeled in AH. That issue being asymmetric deployment. In turns at low speeds, the forces on each wing are different and the slats extend independantly and unpredictably, which can have severe effects on the handling. In Aces High, the slats extend and retract in unison.

Of course this is true of any aircraft with unpowered slats. In fact, when the Blue Angles converted to the A-4 Skyhawk they bolted the slats closed to prevent unexpected deployment while in close formation.

[Brooke]

The problem with your analogy is that is momentum, which is why I believe it to be irrelevant, the aero dynamics involved are missing.

No.  Both have mass and momentum.  Both are governed by F = m * a - Fr, where Fr (friction) is exceedingly small.  That was the point of my analogy.  The only way these things move slowly is if F is approximately equal to Fr, and hence nearly zero.  In the case of the slat, that happens when the pressure differential across the slat is balanced at nearly zero, which of course isn't the case during maneuvering, although you could probably manage it with precise control of conditions in a wind tunnel.

[LCADolby]

In Aces High, the slats extend and retract in unison.

It is possible to get them to extend independently.

[Zacherof]

G-14. I dont always want taters, and the gondies make for fun furball fights