War Thunder

[shoresroad]

I wonder if War Thunder is actually the real competition.  At a point last week I checked the AH MA and it had approx 220 players when at the same time IL2 Cliffs of Dover had about 80 and IL2 Battle of Stalingrad had about 30.  That's 110 hard core simmers that would otherwise be here (and none were in GV's).  But competition is good as it keeps the cutting edge moving forward.

[bustr]

WT can afford "eyes on" advertising saturating the market place. It's a free game with a corporate under writer. Someone set a budget against a time frame including buying eyes on blocks around the Internet and other places to make WT an Internet meme. Eyes on is cheaper by the package compared to "Results" advertising which describes success as new paying accounts due to the add spaces.

So if you don't have really deep pockets and your offering is not free. And you have to unseat a new Internet meme in the minds of a projected percentage of the possible consumer base. A new look, rebranding, Skuzzy gets a new 21st century BFG9000 ban hammer for this free advertising tool called the forum.

Smile for the camera, grit your teeth, and talk nice into the mic. Whether you like it or not, everything you say here helps or hurts a percentage of new paying accounts. And if you have ever watched Bar Rescue, old established customers are many times what drives away new customers when a Bar is trying to rebrand itself and not go out of business.

Skuzzy gets a new 21st century BFG9000 ban hammer.............

Shores,

Check who the owns IL2 now.

[LCADolby]

Pretty sure when I started it took about 2 years to get on Ch200 and the BBS.
Saying the BBS is a turn off is a ridiculous excuse to use; It's always gameplay and graphics

[Rich46yo]

I dont like WT. I just dont like the entire set up.

I'd rather pay for something I like.

[muzik]

Over 90% of the WT player base plays in the arcade arenas.

ack-ack

Which means their is a potential of some 400k people currently interested in a REALISTIC ww2 combat game.

Will htc capitalize on on that huge interest or will they continue doing business like they already have the magic formula?

I have seen all the silly arguments about why AH is dieing repeatedly for months. I can't think of one that was actually right.

Graphics are nice, but game play is king. You could have the best looking game of video checkers in the world, but you won't make money from it by improving the graphics.

The most successful MMOs have one thing in common, complexity. And despite this complexity these games are driven by the most boring aspects you can imagine, mining resources for example.

Who pays to watch a fantasy character swing a pick at a pile of rock or park a space ship next to a meteor?  

MILLIONS of people. They do it because there is a treasure to be found and they are on a quest, a MISSION that they MUST complete or die trying.

We have no such structure in the game. Nothing compels us to fight or even win the war.

It's the exact opposite, players on the same team are always at odds with each other. Those who just want to fight hate when base takers shut down a field. Those who want to take a field hate when furballers don't pitch in to help with the take or the war.

There is a way that the game could be structured to provide exactly what each of us wants but the geniuses that haunt this place will tell you "AH has been in business for 10 years, I think they know what they're doing"...  and again...    

[Wiley]

What gets me is people who talk as though they're directly comparable.

They both have airplanes on the screen and you shoot at the other ones, but that's where the similarity ends.

WT is a game built around a far, far more popular type of game, round based instant action.  This has always been more popular than open world combat.  Open world MMO PVP is a niche market, not just WWII airplane pew pew, and that's why comparing WT to AH is pretty silly, IMO.

The most successful MMOs have one thing in common, complexity. And despite this complexity these games are driven by the most boring aspects you can imagine, mining resources for example.

Who pays to watch a fantasy character swing a pick at a pile of rock or park a space ship next to a meteor?   

MILLIONS of people. They do it because there is a treasure to be found and they are on a quest, a MISSION that they MUST complete or die trying.

And then there are those of us who do not want AH to turn into a Skinner box.

We have no such structure in the game. Nothing compels us to fight or even win the war.

It's the exact opposite, players on the same team are always at odds with each other. Those who just want to fight hate when base takers shut down a field. Those who want to take a field hate when furballers don't pitch in to help with the take or the war.

There is a way that the game could be structured to provide exactly what each of us wants but the geniuses that haunt this place will tell you "AH has been in business for 10 years, I think they know what they're doing"...  and again...     

Well, it's just that simple then.  They just need to structure the game to provide exactly what each of us wants.

Wiley.

[muzik]

WT is a game built around a far, far more popular type of game, round based instant action.  This has always been more popular than open world combat.

Wrong.

WoW, Runescape and EvE online are not instant combat and they are THE most popular and most successful.

What gets me is people who talk as though they're directly comparable.

What gets me is when people who clearly don't do any research...

And then there are those of us who do not want AH to turn into a Skinner box.

...shout warnings with vague, unarticulated fears of potential failure.

Open world MMO PVP is a niche market, not just WWII airplane pew pew, and that's why comparing WT to AH is pretty silly, IMO.

The largest MMOs on the net ARE open world and cant possibly be called a niche by any intelligent person.

But even if WT and AH arent directly comparable, which I agree with in a manner because they are not Coke and Pepsi, WT players will never know that because they have one criteria for describing the game... "I can fly ww2 airplanes."

[bustr]

Has any long term MMO ever rebranded themselves as an evolutionary step to keeping up with changing demographics? Or did they evolve the game itself into something more which attracted the new demographics?

[Soulraptor]

I put a good 700+ hours into War Thunder before I got interested in DCS and AH. I've played about 70-80 simulator battles, and they take a long, LONG time to get in. That's why I switched, the only part of the game I really want to play for fun rather than grinding levels is deserted.

[Triton28]

Meh..

[Wiley]

WoW, Runescape and EvE online are not instant combat and they are THE most popular and most successful.

Do you actually work at being thick?  While they are the most popular of all games, they are also not realtime combat.  They are not even remotely comparable to a game like this.

WT is realtime combat, which is its largest similarity to AH, but it is a completely different style from WT, which among realtime combat games, is of a type that is far more popular type than an open world do as you like style, like AH.  Does that make more sense to you?

What is your point?  Are you suggesting if they are to survive, HTC should shut down the sim and go where the money's at and make a fantasy MMO?

What gets me is when people who clearly don't do any research...

...shout warnings with vague, unarticulated fears of potential failure.

The thing that makes MMO's popular is the whole 'hit the buzzer, get a cookie' (aka skinner box) gameplay which you mentioned.  As much as it may be difficult for you to understand, there are people, many of them playing this game, that find that style of gameplay abhorrent.

The largest MMOs on the net ARE open world and cant possibly be called a niche by any intelligent person.

Oh, they are?  Thank you for enlightening me, Muzik.  Your vast knowledge on the subject is truly impressive.  Also note, those games have completely different gameplay from a game like AH.  They don't require people to have special peripherals, nor a particularly beefy computer by today's standards, and therefore have a much broader appeal than a game like this.

They are open world, they are NOT:

-Open PVP
-Realtime combat
-Flight Sims

But even if WT and AH arent directly comparable, which I agree with in a manner because they are not Coke and Pepsi, WT players will never know that because they have one criteria for describing the game... "I can fly ww2 airplanes."

Yep.  Some other criteria

"I don't have to pay money."
"It is instant action."

Wiley.

[Nefarious]

Sadly our forum has a bad rep for what we think is just verbal ACM with a touch of narcissism, sprinkled with sadism.

Truth.

[Ack-Ack]

Has any long term MMO ever rebranded themselves as an evolutionary step to keeping up with changing demographics? Or did they evolve the game itself into something more which attracted the new demographics?

Many MMOs that have been around a long time do both in various ways. For example, EQ 'rebranded' itself with EQ2 as the 'next evolutionary MMO step' to attract a new demographic for that franchise while WoW has evolved themselves through content updates and expansion in response to the changing market/demographics.  The current WoW is a far different game than when it was released.

ack-ack
 

[bustr]

Кремль

So Nefy, is Putin your real world shade account?

[bustr]

Many MMOs that have been around a long time do both in various ways. For example, EQ 'rebranded' itself with EQ2 as the 'next evolutionary MMO step' to attract a new demographic for that franchise while WoW has evolved themselves through content updates and expansion in response to the changing market/demographics.  The current WoW is a far different game than when it was released.

ack-ack
 

So this is well within HTC's ability to evolve and stay strong then?