Author Topic: Kindergarten Lessons  (Read 21101 times)

Offline phatzo

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #195 on: May 09, 2014, 08:18:43 PM »
You don't want to get into a fight with a roofer, all that time in the sun turns them into crazy bastages.
No thank you Turkish, I'm sweet enough.

Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #196 on: May 09, 2014, 08:23:54 PM »
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It is also not your company, or your playground.

The opposing view to this is that the customer IS the company and playground.  No customer, no playground, and then no company.  Every single customer is part of the playground, and every customer's opinion matters, even if it's contrary to what the company thinks.  

Expressing that opinion, through words, avatars, whatever - what damage does that actually do to the company. I would love to see proof of one new player coming here, reading something such as this current flap, and then saying "no way I'm trying this game, there's dissent on the bbs!".  Balance the incredibly slim likelihood of that ever happening against crossing swords with numerous regular long time players - I just don't see how it adds up.

Star Citizen is a good example - their bbs is like World War 3 compared to here.  They brought in this little sum of money, I believe it was around 20 million dollars, for a game that doesn't even EXIST yet- 500$ of which is from me.  The insanity of their bbs didn't hold me back for an instant - nor did it for the others who put in the other 19,999,500 dollars.  


Edit - All of this should at the very least give you some good ammunition for a few decent cartoons Fugi.  I early am awaiting some good laughs, so please bring it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 08:25:40 PM by Gman »

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2014, 08:40:41 PM »
The opposing view to this is that the customer IS the company and playground.  No customer, no playground, and then no company.  Every single customer is part of the playground, and every customer's opinion matters, even if it's contrary to what the company thinks.  

Expressing that opinion, through words, avatars, whatever - what damage does that actually do to the company. I would love to see proof of one new player coming here, reading something such as this current flap, and then saying "no way I'm trying this game, there's dissent on the bbs!".  Balance the incredibly slim likelihood of that ever happening against crossing swords with numerous regular long time players - I just don't see how it adds up.

Star Citizen is a good example - their bbs is like World War 3 compared to here.  They brought in this little sum of money, I believe it was around 20 million dollars, for a game that doesn't even EXIST yet- 500$ of which is from me.  The insanity of their bbs didn't hold me back for an instant - nor did it for the others who put in the other 19,999,500 dollars.  


Edit - All of this should at the very least give you some good ammunition for a few decent cartoons Fugi.  I early am awaiting some good laughs, so please bring it.

While a business has to respect their customers, the customers should respect the business also. It's a two way street.
If we have something to show we will & do post shots, if we have nothing new to show we don't.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2014, 08:42:54 PM »
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It's a two way street.

Again, the opposing view to this is that it's actually a one way street.  The money only goes in one direction, see.  Keeping it going in that singular direction is paramount in respect to everything else.

Offline DaddieDrax

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #199 on: May 09, 2014, 09:10:07 PM »
The opposing view to this is that the customer IS the company and playground.  No customer, no playground, and then no company.  Every single customer is part of the playground, and every customer's opinion matters, even if it's contrary to what the company thinks.  

Expressing that opinion, through words, avatars, whatever - what damage does that actually do to the company. I would love to see proof of one new player coming here, reading something such as this current flap, and then saying "no way I'm trying this game, there's dissent on the bbs!".  Balance the incredibly slim likelihood of that ever happening against crossing swords with numerous regular long time players - I just don't see how it adds up.

Star Citizen is a good example - their bbs is like World War 3 compared to here.  They brought in this little sum of money, I believe it was around 20 million dollars, for a game that doesn't even EXIST yet- 500$ of which is from me.  The insanity of their bbs didn't hold me back for an instant - nor did it for the others who put in the other 19,999,500 dollars.  




Edit - All of this should at the very least give you some good ammunition for a few decent cartoons Fugi.  I early am awaiting some good laughs, so please bring it.


This nonsense is keeping my $16/month in my pocket for the time being.  Is that proof enough?  Really - as a past player wanting to get back into the game, this is ridiculous.  Grow up, guys. 

Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #200 on: May 09, 2014, 09:14:17 PM »
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This nonsense is keeping my $16/month in my pocket for the time being.  Is that proof enough?  Really - as a past player wanting to get back into the game, this is ridiculous.  Grow up, guys.  

Uh huh.  So, by reading something you choose to read, something you could easily just ignore, by either clicking ignore on the person posting, or simply NOT read it - this has caused you enough distress to not play.  Discussing and arguing BBS policies has you upset enough to not play.  Yes, I'm absolutely convinced that's the reason.  Good one.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:16:26 PM by Gman »

Offline DaddieDrax

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #201 on: May 09, 2014, 09:17:46 PM »
Uh huh.  So, by reading something you choose to read, something you could easily just ignore, by either clicking ignore on the person posting, or simply NOT read it - this has caused you enough distress to not play.  Discussing and arguing BBS policies has you upset enough to not play.  Yes, I'm absolutely convinced that's the reason.  Good one.

The bbs is a representation of Aces High, Hitech Creations and the what I would perceive to experience in the game.  Please continue your patronizing replies if you must.  You're hammering down my point.  Why would I want to experience this cess pool in a game I pay to play?

Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #202 on: May 09, 2014, 09:19:30 PM »
I have in no way patronized you.  Trying to incorrectly apply words such as that just makes you look desperate with your argument.  So, by your logic, the thing that is keeping you from playing is the BBS arguments of late.  They really just started getting bad in recent weeks.  What kept you from subscribing before that, when everything was hunky dory, and on a dull roar here so far as dissent on the BBS goes?  Answer that if you would.  Did you anticipate more "cesspool" arguments happening in the future, and did that keep you from pulling the trigger on re subscribing?  You're just using the fact that you don't subscribe as a convenient excuse IMO to fit your argument, as you should have subscribed by your own reasons when the BBS was quelled of all negative waves during periods of time.

Let me guess - your next contention is that the BBS has been SO bad for such a long period of time, you just couldn't possibly subscribe and play, because some of that might spill over into the game itself.  

Tell you what - I'll pay for your sub for 3 months tomorrow, I'll call it into HTC whenever you like.  You can then come back and report how talk in the game, on channels you yourself have to actually tune into (ie choice), and how much what's said there runs concurrent with all the negativity of the forums, and post screen shots and the like to prove it.  You see, the hole in your argument is the same as here - in game it's a choice to listen to 99% of the "negative" stuff - you can simply tune most of it out, and be at peace if that's your thing.

I suppose the other way to go is Skuzzy PNG's the reaming few people even talking about this, as most of those arguing about it (not me I never even posted in the 12 hour thread, I don't even use my account right now, and could care less about side switching) are already gone.  So, by your statements, what's been keeping you "out" will be gone.  You should have your credit card ready for tomorrow right, if all the "dissent", and the "cesspool" is gone, right?  How do I somehow doubt it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:36:45 PM by Gman »

Offline Swoop

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #203 on: May 09, 2014, 09:23:09 PM »
Why would I want to experience this cess pool in a game I pay to play?

Cos the BBS isn't part of the game you pay to play?  It's just for discussing the game you pay to play.  You don't pay to discuss the game you pay to play and don't have to play the game you wouldn't be paying to play in order to discuss it.  You don't even have to come near this BBS if you just want to play, paying or not. er...

I think I've gone cross eyed....
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 09:27:09 PM by Swoop »

Offline shoresroad

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #204 on: May 09, 2014, 09:39:43 PM »
Standards of conduct are established by businesses all the time.  Our grocery store doesn't let vegetarians form picket lines in the meat department.  Bars have bouncers for a reason.  Protests are legal on public property in the USA, not private property such as this bbs.  If the dollar drove all business policy then businesses would always be defined by the lowest common denominator of conduct.  Its a rediculous argument: "I'm free to act anyway I want because I've paid $15.  I bought a coke so now I can picket the meat department."  That dog won't hunt :rolleyes:
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Offline Max

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #205 on: May 09, 2014, 09:40:07 PM »
As a 13 yr. subscriber, my .02 cents:

I love the game, 99% of the online players and the various options available for WW2 & WW1 combat.

I have no dog in the hunt as per the 12 hr side switch rule. I fly Bishops EDT morning time and often fly with a high ENY. At some point in time I might opt for the low ENY country. If so, I realize I'll be contained in such country for 12 hrs, End of the world? No. Those are the current parameters. It's MY choice to switch sides and accept the consequences.

As for those of you who oppose the 12 hr. limitation...I've read most of the compelling arguments, watched the BBS go into a recent tailspin, and am aware of the plethora of PNG's.

Here's what it boils down to folks (IMHO)...every time Hitech or Skuzzy cease work on game development, so as to chime in on rule infringements, rebuttals & explanations, etc., they cease to expend time on development.

Please allow them to do what they do best and move the game FORWARD. The 12 hr. rule has been beaten to death.

Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #206 on: May 09, 2014, 09:47:11 PM »
I agree with that sentiment, I've said as much in former posts if you go back in this thread and read them.  What I also believe is it's HTC's choice to take that time and respond/moderate the complaints.

Do you think this is the last issue that there will ever be complaints about, and if it's "stopped" as you ask, all of a sudden HT will now no longer have to waste any time moderating?  Unlikely, or more accurately, impossible.  So, where is the ball - whose court is it in so far as choosing to spend time here or not?  Which would be more likely, or even more possible, in your assessment - the ceasing of complaints, or the ceasing of spending so much time being concerned with them?

I too have no dog in the hunt regarding the 12 hour rule, I could really care less about it.  What I do care about is the policies and their application so far as the bbs is concerned, as I've seen many, MANY players get angry over bbs trivium and being suspended or PNG'd, leave the game, or at least threaten to, which has a ripple effect worse than that person just silently leaving.  That and the time spent actually moderating these people - I agree, it's a waste of HTC's time.  It will NEVER go away.  There will always be a new 12 hour rule debate over something else.  The only people that can change what's going on is HTC IMO, as trying to constantly moderate or PNG people saying things that you don't like is like playing an eternal game of wack a mole.

Either way, good post Max, salute to another old timer here.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:09:00 PM by Gman »

Offline Hap

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #207 on: May 09, 2014, 09:47:34 PM »
Somewhere along the line some folks have been raised and cultivated a different standard to evaluate things than I.

I'm an old duff.  All of this is an easy choice for me.

For any who thinks their $15 a month entitles them to call the shots, take that to the street an make hay with it.

HTC has shown more patience than I could have ever summoned up.

Offline Gman

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #208 on: May 09, 2014, 09:54:10 PM »
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For any who thinks their $15 a month entitles them to call the shots, take that to the street an make hay with it.

And the trouble with that common argument put forward by many, is the people you are referring to don't actually think, or act, as though their subscription contribution entitles them to make policy.  The argument is IMO how they should be treated when they act out,  if they should be heard, and not punished for words and actions regarding that.  Some critical posts, a few avatars and signatures - how exactly is that "calling the shots".  It's a campaign for change, not a gun to the head demanding changes based on being one of thousands of others.  Again, IMO every customer is a commodity, and even if kid gloves are required when dealing with the troublesome ones, actually removing them from a critical part of your business over bbs trivium, and risking losing them, is something I just don't understand.

Offline Max

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Re: Kindergarten Lessons
« Reply #209 on: May 09, 2014, 09:55:21 PM »
 :salute Gman