F-35

[danny76]

The Flanker will extend away from the puny AMRAAM shot and then run the JSF down and kill it.

AMRAAM 3060mph, SU30 1470mph, extend away?

I am pretty dim but something going twice as fast usually arrives first.

[zack1234]

I thought you were banned

So remember our discussion and it will not happen again

[danny76]

I thought you were banned

So remember our discussion and it will not happen again

Shhhh, 

[Fish42]

AMRAAM 3060mph, SU30 1470mph, extend away?

I am pretty dim but something going twice as fast usually arrives first.

Its about how far the missile is shot from. It is fast, but if the Flanker detects the firing (the F-35 has to open ports and breaks up its frontal stealth) early then the Flanker can use its high Agility to turn and extend. The missile following it then has to tail chase the con and its possible for the Flanker to leave the range of the missile fired. It also gives the Flanker a chance to deploy the counter.

[danny76]

Its about how far the missile is shot from. It is fast, but if the Flanker detects the firing (the F-35 has to open ports and breaks up its frontal stealth) early then the Flanker can use its high Agility to turn and extend. The missile following it then has to tail chase the con and its possible for the Flanker to leave the range of the missile fired. It also gives the Flanker a chance to deploy the counter.

I understand all the countermeasures arguments, but was merely questioning the Flankers ability to extend away from the missile with a range of 180km

[Vraciu]

AMRAAM 3060mph, SU30 1470mph, extend away?

I am pretty dim but something going twice as fast usually arrives first.

I understand all the countermeasures arguments, but was merely questioning the Flankers ability to extend away from the missile with a range of 180km

Then you don't understand missile pole length and probability of kill.  

To overly simplify, think of jousting:

If you are shooting down on someone all things being equal, like the Flanker can, you have a longer pole length than the guy shooting upwards, like the Joint Strike Failure.

Speed at launch also affects missile range.


The Flanker can shoot from a greater distance and has the ability to foil the F-35's AMRAAM shot.  Slammer has become like the Sparrow so its PK is low and the JSF doesn't carry very many.  Also it may have left the ship without a gun.  So now a Flanker with far more agility, kinematics, speed, range, and firepower is at a distinct advantage.

The JSF is a disaster.  

[Vraciu]

Double post.

[danny76]

Then you don't understand missile pole length and probability of kill.  

To overly simplify, think of jousting:

If you are shooting down on someone all things being equal, like the Flanker can, you have a longer pole length than the guy shooting upwards, like the Joint Strike Failure.

Speed at launch also affects missile range.


The Flanker can shoot from a greater distance and has the ability to foil the F-35's AMRAAM shot.  Slammer has become like the Sparrow so its PK is low and the JSF doesn't carry very many.  Also it may have left the ship without a gun.  So now a Flanker with far more agility, kinematics, speed, range, and firepower is at a distinct advantage.

The JSF is a disaster.  

Ok,yep, understood, no problem, yep, understood that too, thanks..... can the flanker extend from an AMRAAM/?

[GScholz]

The opinions voiced against the F-35 and AMRAAM in this thread are completely ridiculous. Listen to the people in the know, like Beau here. Treat the rest like the ignorant tin foil hat conspiracy theorists they are.

[maus92]

Always amazes me how many people just trash something that they probably dont know anything about. Yes, they fixed the carrier tail hook and it will start carrier testing later this year. Things are looking good for the program. All testing is going good here. Yes there are hic-ups, but what program didnt. My plane is flying great. We are hitting many test points, and the ones we miss, we are going back, making sure we get it right, then fly it again. The F-35 is twice as loud as an F-16, and I would compare it to a F-22 taking off noise wise. How is it a waste of taxpayer money? Do you have proof? How did it fail? Proof? Just curious how people make these claims, but no proof to back it up. Apparently we are doing something right, Turkey just secured a order of 100. Japan has bought 50. South Korea just placed an order. From what I have seen, the flanker will never know the F-35 is there till its too late. This plane has a lot of amazing things going on with it, its a shame the general public only knows little of it....

BTW, if your curious about how I may know this. I am a Crew Chief on the F-35 at Edwards AFB, AF-03 is my bird.

Turkey affirmed that it plans to order two F-35s, and to eventually acquire 100 jets,  but the actual order for the first two has not been placed yet.

F-35 is twice as loud as a Super Hornet - which is VERY loud.

Italy has cut its planned order twice, from ~130 to 90, and now 45....

Other European nations have trimmed planned orders - or reconsidered competitions - and the US services have delayed their purchases significantly - but still plan on acquiring the re-baselined number of ~2400.  The Navy for instance, has proposed cutting its orders in half between now and 2019.

The program has had a horrible acquisition history.  Back in the day, USAF officials testified to Congress that the flyaway price for F-35A (the CTOL version) would be about $35M.  The price has declined steadily in the ramp-up to FRP, but it still costs the government - thus the taxpayer - $110M to deliver the jet on the ramp at Fort Worth.  To actually support and operate the jet cost significantly more on an unit basis, ~$20M.  This is why some people call it a waste...

[PanosGR]

Truth is F-35 is less flying  bucket than the X-32 was but still is a flying bucket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw

[Changeup]

Truth is F-35 is less flying  bucket than the X-32 was but still is a flying bucket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw

Oh Pierre Sprey...the guy hated the 15 and what the 16 became.  It's tough to take a guy seriously that poo poo'd on the 15 when it had a 100:1 kill ratio.  He's more like a disgruntled employee or food critic that only likes Italian food, lol

[mthrockmor]

See Rule #14

[mthrockmor]

Oh Pierre Sprey...the guy hated the 15 and what the 16 became.  It's tough to take a guy seriously that poo poo'd on the 15 when it had a 100:1 kill ratio.  He's more like a disgruntled employee or food critic that only likes Italian food, lol

I've read much written by Sprey, watched half a dozen interviews. I don't recall him ever going after the F-15, or upgrades to the F-16. Can you post links?

[Vinkman]

I probably know more about it than you.  Don't buy the LockMart hype.  The airplane is over budget, hugely behind schedule, and cannot survive emerging threats.   The Super Hornet brings far more to the fight than the Joint Strike Failure.


The thing is garbage.

The avionics don't work.

The helmet doesn't work.

Compromises to cram the lift fan into the design for the Marines wrecked it.  

Bulkhead failures.

Hundreds of hours in depot post-delivery to fix screw ups.

Massive electrical problems due to insufficient cooling.

Not enough ordnance to fight its way into a target.

Can't go high enough to get any range.

Awful kinematics.

Creates persistent vortex trails that  can be detected from hundreds of miles.

I could go on for a week.

Without someone to pave the way this thing is dead meat.

I remember hearing all the same stuff about the american arsenal prior to the gulf war/ Iraq war/ etc...Exaggerated clames of complex systems that don't work. 

There hasn't been a russian fighter that's killed anything since vietnam. Unless you count the Korean 747.

Kill ratio of American Fighter vs Russian designs through the Israeli conflicts and gulf Wars is...well...undefeated.