Author Topic: Collisions  (Read 5551 times)

Offline Randy1

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2014, 02:32:55 PM »
That seems unlikely given that the data stream is generally consistent and the game is coded to avoid warping from controller input.

You are thinking from the stick stir'ers end.  My point is what some ones sees on their screen watching a stick stirring.

Offline FLS

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2014, 02:45:23 PM »
You are thinking from the stick stir'ers end.  My point is what some ones sees on their screen watching a stick stirring.

No. I am referring to the data coming from the evasive fighter and displayed on your end. It's consistently delayed. That makes it smooth but in a slightly different map location. You may be thinking of variance where the travel time delay is not the same.

Offline NikonGuy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2014, 04:12:14 AM »
Right now, if both players collide, they both take damage. "No if's, no and's, no buts."

The current model does not reward anyone.  If you avoid the collision, you fly away.  If you do not avoid the collision, you take damage.  It really is that simple.  No one collides and does not take damage.

Regardless of the manner of death, a kill will be awarded.

I can't agree with this ..

On the very odd occasion I have had people ram me, they fall to the ground in numerous pieces while I have not a single scratch.  I don't even get any damage sounds, the only way I know there has been a collision is due to the text buffer telling me.

<S>
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:16:52 AM by NikonGuy »
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Offline FLS

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2014, 04:44:56 AM »
I can't agree with this ..

On the very odd occasion I have had people ram me, they fall to the ground in numerous pieces while I have not a single scratch.  I don't even get any damage sounds, the only way I know there has been a collision is due to the text buffer telling me.

<S>

There are two different text messages. The message you get in the text buffer when you don't get damage is telling you there was a collision on the other PC, "PlayerID collided with you." If you do get damage then message says the collision was on your PC, "You collided with playerID." You will see both messages when a collision is detected on both computers.

Offline NikonGuy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2014, 05:41:53 AM »
There are two different text messages. The message you get in the text buffer when you don't get damage is telling you there was a collision on the other PC, "PlayerID collided with you." If you do get damage then message says the collision was on your PC, "You collided with playerID." You will see both messages when a collision is detected on both computers.


Thats what baffles me .. if the other pc had a collision then my pc should get a collision.  You can't have a collision with only one object.  If two cars on the highway hit head on, its a dual collision, not one guy collides and the other gets nothing.  A collision involves two entities, whether thats another plane, another car or a brick wall, yes?
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Offline FLS

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2014, 06:16:17 AM »
Thats what baffles me .. if the other pc had a collision then my pc should get a collision.  You can't have a collision with only one object.  If two cars on the highway hit head on, its a dual collision, not one guy collides and the other gets nothing.  A collision involves two entities, whether thats another plane, another car or a brick wall, yes?

It baffles a lot of people.  :D

When you merge with another aircraft your A/C is controlled by you in real time. The bandit was controlled a short time ago. You are seeing where it used to be on the bandit's PC. On the bandit's PC it has already moved. The bandit is in a different location on the other PC. Your A/C is in a different location on the bandit's PC. On your PC you already moved.

So now we have the possibilities of four combinations, since the two entities are repeated on the other PC in different relative positions. Now the four possibilities are no collision, both collide on both PCs, both collide on your PC, or both collide on the bandit's PC. If there is no collision on your PC you don't take damage regardless of what happens on the other PC. If there is a collision on your PC and no collision on the bandit's PC then the bandit flies away on your PC. What you described was a collision on the bandit's PC but not on yours. So the bandit went down for colliding on his PC, and you didn't get damaged because there was no collision on your PC. It's an illusion that we fly in the same arena. We fly in near identical copies and the slight differences in aircraft location are handled by detecting collisions locally. That prevents a situation where you maneuver to miss a collision and get damaged even though you avoided contact.

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2014, 07:30:25 AM »
Thats what baffles me .. if the other pc had a collision then my pc should get a collision.  You can't have a collision with only one object.  If two cars on the highway hit head on, its a dual collision, not one guy collides and the other gets nothing.  A collision involves two entities, whether thats another plane, another car or a brick wall, yes?

You cannot apply what happens in the real world.  If you cannot stop that, then think of it this way.  Try having a head on collision with another car who is on the other side of the world.  That is essentially what the game has to deal with.

Yes, there are always two entities involved in a collision.  For the sake of clarity, let's name them Bob and Ralph.

On Bob's computer, he sees Ralph explode and fall into a million pieces while Bob flies away.
What was happening was Ralph did not avoid colliding with Bob, on Ralph's computer.  So Ralph's computer assigned the appropriate damage to Ralphs' plane.

Bob's computer did not detect Bob intersecting with another object, so Bob flew away.

And that is the reality in Aces High.  Every computer, in the game, has its own version of where it thinks every one is.  None of them are in the same place on each on of those computers. It is due to time displacement.


You may not like or agree with the way it works, but it is the best compromise for a game that is not server based.
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Offline ImADot

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2014, 09:16:47 AM »
And that is the reality in Aces High.  Every computer, in the game, has its own version of where it thinks every one is.  None of them are in the same place on each on of those computers. It is due to time displacement.


You may not like or agree with the way it works, but it is the best compromise for a game that is not server based.

And I much prefer it this way. Allow me to fly with a responsive plane and have full control over where I fly my plane. If I happen to briefly lose connection, I'm still flying my plane around and can still avoid trees, buildings and mountains. Others will see me continue on my last path and then suddenly "warp" to my new position when my connection comes back up and my client can update the server with my new position.

I tried another flight game that is server based. When I briefly lose connection to their server, I can no longer control my plane and I'm stuck watching it fly in a straight line right into the trees or a mountain. THAT is more frustrating than anything else, and one of the many reasons I stopped playing it.

So the bottom line is this: fly your plane to avoid contact with other objects and you will NEVER take collision damage. Bullet damage, on the other hand is given based on who is doing the shooting and what their game client detects as hitting other objects.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2014, 09:18:18 AM »
Thats what baffles me .. if the other pc had a collision then my pc should get a collision.  You can't have a collision with only one object. 

Haven't you seen the collision picture I posted earlier in this thread?
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Offline NikonGuy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2014, 10:01:52 AM »
FLS and Skuzzy .. thanks for that great explanation .. I do get it. 

I guess what I am saying is no matter where the other players plane may be.  If he hits you then bad luck, you both go down. Or if I hit him, whether deliberate or not, we both take the collision and fall gracefully to earth .. :P

Seriously 9 out of 10 collisions for me end up with me losing it totally and the other guy flying away.  Whether thats because I am in Australia who knows, regarding latency or whatever.  I do know my ping is always 250+ but whether thats got anything to do with it, I don't know.

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Offline NikonGuy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2014, 10:02:55 AM »
Haven't you seen the collision picture I posted earlier in this thread?

Yes Lusche, I did, thank you :)
I get it .. I am just not very good at explaining myself.  <S>
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2014, 10:07:18 AM »
FLS and Skuzzy .. thanks for that great explanation .. I do get it.  

I guess what I am saying is no matter where the other players plane may be.  If he hits you then bad luck, you both go down. Or if I hit him, whether deliberate or not, we both take the collision and fall gracefully to earth .. :P

Seriously 9 out of 10 collisions for me end up with me losing it totally and the other guy flying away.  Whether thats because I am in Australia who knows, regarding latency or whatever.  I do know my ping is always 250+ but whether thats got anything to do with it, I don't know.

<S>


You take damage, because you failed to avoid the collision.  The other guy, avoided the collision.  Thatis why he was able to fly away.

If you avoid a collision, you really want your plane to blow up because the other guy failed to avoid the collision?  You want the other player to have that kind of control over your plane?

You are already noting you lose at collisions.  Imagine losing when you actually avoid the collision!

That is what you are asking for.  It also indicates may not really understand how and why the collisions work the way they do and why they have to work that way.

Right now, you have absolute control over your plane.  If you avoid the collision, your plane takes no damage.  Any other scenario grants the other player the ability to ruin your day, no matter how well you fly.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 10:09:22 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Skyyr

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2014, 04:51:01 PM »
You take damage, because you failed to avoid the collision.  The other guy, avoided the collision.  Thatis why he was able to fly away.

Does the gunnery model work like this?
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2014, 04:54:35 PM »
Does the gunnery model work like this?

Kinda. If you hit your target on your "screen", it's damaged. It doesn't matter if you hit him on "his screen" as well, which occasionally to often you will not.

Game would be unplayable otherwise.
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Offline Skyyr

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Re: Collisions
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2014, 05:03:44 PM »
Kinda. If you hit your target on your "screen", it's damaged. It doesn't matter if you hit him on "his screen" as well, which occasionally to often you will not.

Game would be unplayable otherwise.

So gunnery doesn't work the same as Skuzzy described that collisions do (damage is only taken if directly experienced by the end-user). And that makes sense that gunnery would work as described above.

So why is there such an uproar over collisions (which involve a huge, entirely avoidable plane) damaging both players, yet not a peep about all of the lag-filled shots that happen on a daily basis?

The gunnery model is proof that 1) people would be fine with a system that affects both players (as such a mechanism is already in place for the gunnery model) and 2) that the lag is acceptable enough that it shouldn't cause any adverse problems (in that the playerbase doesn't seem to be crying about laggy shots killing them). It follows then that unless the collision boxes are somehow much bigger than described, a dual-damaging collision system would also be viable.

Collide, both die, no one gets the kill (or they both kill each other). I think that would discourage collisions in general.
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