Scoring

[Slade]

As I orbit a base port here this morning for what seems like an eternity waiting for something...anything to shoot down, I contemplate the findings in this thread on how this will not effect my score in a practical way.

Then again there are these data points:

* Upping a plane on the runway then deciding not to take off ending the flight immediately.
   Some reasons include: Chose wrong plane, chose wrong base, base being vulched etc.  
   => Kills per Sortie

* Shooting at non-targets for fun and\or tactical changes.
   This includes shooting at moon, buildings while in fighter mode, other friendlies [across bow], burning off undesired ammo [type] etc.
   => TotalTourBulletsUsed, Hit percentage

* Helping a fellow pilot upon request.
  To help unreservedly may require flying in a manner that sacrifices ones ideal score\stats\rank.
  => Potentially All

* Re-arm pad.
   => Kills per "Sortie"

* Choosing to bail or ditch without any damage.
   Some reasons include: not wanting to fly all the way back to base, empty fuel, deliveries (UPS, pizza...), spouse ACK etc.
   => ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)

* Flying high ENY planes, i.e. non-perk planes. ( C202, P-40c etc.)
   It tends to take longer to get to a fight and also tends to take more rounds of 7mm and .303 to do damage.
   => TotalTourSortieTime, PlaneDamageScore ...

* Having to stay in tower.
   Some reasons include: phone calls, house chores, spouse ACK and forgot was playing as other life events happen.
   => TotalTourSortieTime

* High altitude bomber intercept missions.
  => TotalTourSortieTime

* Setting convergence to a general setting good for bombers and ACM.
   Like 475. Not gonna get an instant kill at close range like 300. Still able to be effective against bombers.
   Just means you tend to use more ammo for ACM in some cases.
   => PlaneDamageScore,TotalTourBulletsHit,TotalTourBulletsUsed

Conclusion
The conclusion is obvious.  Score may be useful for your own learning and growth.  Maybe not as any real indicator of a pilots skill.  Respectfully, we not not lab rats where all things in the flying "lab" are equal.  There are just too many ways to skew stats\score.


EDIT:
* While in flight to a probably hot spot, waiting forever in the morning hours to find any action.
   => TotalTourSortieTime

This is just a very modest list of factors that can effect stats\score!

[LCADolby]

Slade, I have 99% of my convergences at 300, and kill bombers effectively, you can knock that one off it's pretty pointless..

[Kruel]

Good replies, discussion points. I will, reply when I get home from school.

[Triton28]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think of anyone who isn't capable of holding his own in a 1v1 as a good MA pilot. 

A good dueler who isn't good in the MA just needs better SA.  That's far easier to teach than trying to make Mr. Observant into a dueling bracket monster. 


 

[Lusche]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think of anyone who isn't capable of holding his own in a 1v1 ...

against whom?

...as a good MA pilot. 
 

[SPKmes]

My impression of scoring.....
Score is very subjective...people who know the system, work it..this in itself is a skill
I wouldn't say that all top ranked player for each particular section are the best...they just know more and are more patient than me..
Yes there are those who can and do and know how to fight the dogfight till death way but if they are going for a ranking they will not play that game...they will play the score game..
This is one of the great things about this game and the fact that it resets.... there is always the chance to go for the top stats
Whether that is topping the charts and getting your name on the AH front page..or bettering your last months stats there is always the challenge.
For those who are going for top dog...they have a game to play against the others trying for it...I have seen many times players who will stay online for stupid amounts of hours to keep or take that spot in the last couple of days..

to ink (no slight intended)... I think the biggest issue is far from the guys who play for rank...as was pointed out...some of the top "ranked" guys can and do fight....
the biggest issue to me is the ones who blatantly have no care for stats at all ..... with out some kind of grading system there will be no point for many...this includes me...now I don't strive for top dog but I do strive for bettering myself which is where my stats matter to me. However...I won't stop the way I play which is why, for me, keeping a particular set of stats can be difficult.... I bail and ditch all the time just to get to another part of the map faster .. I defend bases under large base take attempts etc etc...but I always strive to better myself(through my stats)
This is where as I said this score system I feel is great.... these days games track from your start date.... so after years of play you have some stupid ranking that you perhaps shouldn't have but you have played for so long you are up there getting all the free mods whilst someone newer with better raw skill is left to fight with a pea shooter.

well would you look at this...blah de blah blah.... I will proof read after I post...hope it makes sense  hahahaha


Edit = proof reading hahaha ... probably still more to change

[Triton28]

against whom?

The vast majority of players.

1v1's do happen in the MA.  Being proficient enough in that scenario is part of being a good MA pilot.  

[Slade]

Slade, I have 99% of my convergences at 300, and kill bombers effectively, you can knock that one off it's pretty pointless..

Dolby I set most my convergence to 300 too.  The data points I posted were mostly impersonal.  Some mine. Some I have heard others discuss.  Not everyone has your skill at bombers and\or simply prefer to shoot them further out.  No biggie.

This is where as I said this score system I feel is great

SPKmes with regard for using it for personal growth I agree!

[Lusche]

The vast majority of players..  

By that definition, a very large group (if not majority) of players would be rated as "good"

[ink]

My impression of scoring.....
Score is very subjective...people who know the system, work it..this in itself is a skill
I wouldn't say that all top ranked player for each particular section are the best...they just know more and are more patient than me..
Yes there are those who can and do and know how to fight the dogfight till death way but if they are going for a ranking they will not play that game...they will play the score game..
This is one of the great things about this game and the fact that it resets.... there is always the chance to go for the top stats
Whether that is topping the charts and getting your name on the AH front page..or bettering your last months stats there is always the challenge.
For those who are going for top dog...they have a game to play against the others trying for it...I have seen many times players who will stay online for stupid amounts of hours to keep or take that spot in the last couple of days..

to ink (no slight intended)... I think the biggest issue is far from the guys who play for rank...as was pointed out...some of the top "ranked" guys can and do fight....
the biggest issue to me is the ones who blatantly have no care for stats at all ..... with out some kind of grading system there will be no point for many...this includes me...now I don't strive for top dog but I do strive for bettering myself which is where my stats matter to me. However...I won't stop the way I play which is why, for me, keeping a particular set of stats can be difficult.... I bail and ditch all the time just to get to another part of the map faster .. I defend bases under large base take attempts etc etc...but I always strive to better myself(through my stats)
This is where as I said this score system I feel is great.... these days games track from your start date.... so after years of play you have some stupid ranking that you perhaps shouldn't have but you have played for so long you are up there getting all the free mods whilst someone newer with better raw skill is left to fight with a pea shooter.

well would you look at this...blah de blah blah.... I will proof read after I post...hope it makes sense  hahahaha


Edit = proof reading hahaha ... probably still more to change

 

I understood it
and no slight taken..

stats are good for us to judge ourselves...for sure...

I just think it is silly to believe because someone is the top ranked player he is a good "fighter".

obviously to get a good "rank" you must play the whole game...and play it well....for me my only concern is the dogfighting part.... so when ever I discuss something it's along those lines...I do not play the whole game...never really have...I am very one dimensional when it comes to Aces High....but yet therein lies the great debate....whats more changing and dynamic fight...taking bases or fighting fighters....


the only way to truly be able to judge someones "skill" is to fight him...period.

[Kruel]

Thanks for granting my 1st wish! I guess a follow up wish was, that this should be linked to the scores/stats page when you pull up your stats..for easy reference if anything.


Some of the points here is exactly what I am wishing for change..

We can't have a statistical ranking system based on subjective points like "how he fights".

Also, why do people think that if K/H didn't exist people would be more "timid"? In a war it all boils down to how many of the enemy you kill/destroy/damage. The list of the greatest aces didn't list their kills per day or how many bullets they came back home with. They are ranked by kills. That being said, I challenge anyone not in the top 5 in fighter rankings to go 180-0 like TonyJoey has. Is he really gaming the system? Or playing the game to its peak efficiency like its supposed to be played (at least IRL which this game is a 'simulator' of). You don't have that kind of ratio if you don't have superior SA, masterful knowledge of your aircraft and the enemy aircraft you are fighting. You take calculated risks. I think it takes an extraordinary amount of patience and discipline to fly that way.

If this was any other action/sim/shooting game that kinda of ratio would be on YouTube, in this community people are like "meh". Yet I haven't seen anyone come close to it. (Go 180-0 in Call of Duty with no KillStreaks, that takes skill, even if you are in a tower sniping from afar, the same applies here)

Rankings are about being objective, right now so much weight is given to secondary stats like Kills/Hour(sucks if you are flying off hours) or Kills/Sortie(can you use the re-arm pad).

Rankings are about how well a pilot can control his environment. Did you up from a base to a bar dar only to have it disappear when you are halfway there? Sorry, that means your Kills/Hour go down, you are not a good as the guy who didn't have his bar dar disappear. You can't always control when you find a fight (Or find a fight at all when there aren't a lot of players on). Therefore it shouldn't be used as a gauge of how good you are

Also , is it true that you lose TimePerTour for sitting in the tower?! I go AFK when I'm in the tower! Do I really have to quit the game in order to not affect my score?

Kills/Sortie...Re-arm pad..enough said. not a real indicator of skill.

Kills/Death DOES rest on the shoulders of the pilot and IS a real indicator of skill. If it was so easy, EVERYONE would have a high k/d..its not easy. It takes SA, good flying and good shooting to get a high K/D.

Total # of Kills: Again if this was implemented it would counter act the "timidness" factor everyone talks about. A player with a 100-10 ratio is probably better than a player that got lucky with a 10-1 run.

Hit % All things being equal I think this is also Objective but I am not completely convinced...if twin pilots fly the exact same way, the one with better aim will be a better fighter obviously. The only problem I have is that it can be gamed by shooting bombers, also, cannons are at a high disadvantage vs MGs because of rate of fire and damage done, it forces people who want a higher hit % to fly MG planes. I'm 60/40 on this stat leaning towards wishing for its removal. I could deal with it if K/H (the most subjective stat sometimes uncontrollable by the pilot, therefore not a real indicator of skill, imho) was removed.

[Kruel]

In short, if you take out kills/time for fighters you are changing the game dynamics. Right now, someone who takes flying "cautious" to the extreme has about no chance to end up #1, because his kills/time will suck (this is why the famous "protecting your score" by avoiding combat is actually just protecting your k/d, not your score as such.)
If you take out time as a factor, k/d alone will become massively important, making avoidment of any situation where you could possibly shot down very rewarding. Which ain't exactly great for gameplay in my opinion. Right now, someone who's avoiding a lot of combat opportunities to boost his k/d will pay the price.


And finally kills/time is a sign of skill. It's far more difficult to get a lot of kills, with a good k/d AND having a great k/time than just having many kills and a good k/d.

Doesn't Total # of Kills address this though? Everyone has the same amount of time to play the game and be ranked per tour, wouldn't the person who simply comes out with the most kills given the alloted time of the tour be ranked higher? Doesn't the K/H also have the effect of making people go vulch? There are other games out there whose player base didn't turn into high alt monkey because they didn't count kills per hour, I am sure this wouldn't be any different.

[Kruel]

Although a decent score in fighter can be found fighting, I wish score was removed all together.
Too many take their score protecting to the extreme, circling like 20k sharks at even a whiff of a furball, running 25miles+ if they lose their advantage, running to friends if they are beginning to be given a hard time. the list goes on.
As for the removal of kills per time, that would only serve to make things worse. This OP wish is to severely ruin what gameplay there is in AcesHigh. I can't support in away way expect into the nearest trash can.

Again, I think Total Kills  would fix the Kills/Time..its a much more objective data point and less dependant on "how good are you at finding a base to vulch to make this number higher".

[Kruel]

Very good post Kruel and even better answers.

However, I have personally found that when I am able to throw caution to the wind and just have fun with my squadees and buddies, it usually yields the best score result. 

I do make a conscious effort to score the majority of my "fighter" sorties in the "attack" category, that helps as I like the group effort base capture portion of the game as well as the dogfight action.

That's exactly what its about, having fun. Some people (more than care to admit) do pay attention to rankings and I believe they should be as objective as possible.

[Karnak]

Not everybody has the skill to get a high K/D, but more than that most people don't enjoy playing in a way that maximizes K/D.  Avoiding any fight that you don't have a massive advantage in is boring.  Some people ignore score and stats altogether, but we're really not talking about them.

Almost all of my memorable fights have me starting at a disadvantage and overcoming it.  I recall a few where I started with the advantage, but they are rare, two that I can think of off hand.  If I were trying to maximize my K/D I'd never have engaged in most of those fights because my odds of winning were low.  K/D also greatly favors things like the La-7, Fw190D-9 and Typhoon.  K/H balances that out as it favors things that can get guns on sequential targets faster, like Spits and A6Ms.

While a multiplier for using harder aircraft sounds great, have fun with the arguments that produces.  Somethings we all agree are much harder to succeed in, such as the P-40s, particularly the C, but others currently carrying a high ENY are much more controversial, such as the Bf109F-4, Fw190A-5 and Mosquito Mk VI.

EDIT:

Total Kills doesn't work as a skill factor as it is simply a measure of how much time somebody plays or can play.  Vulching helps K/H when you get a willing enemy participant, sure, but it isn't common enough to overpower just general good K/H.