Review the Yak-3 damage model.

[Tec]

This thread reminded me of an incident a few months back that I saved the film then forgot about.  So let me play devils advocate and say the Yak3 is too easy to kill, at least in the spinner area.

2 Kills, instant explosion with one ping on the front of the plane from what I think is an MG42. http://www55.zippyshare.com/v/15334689/file.html

[save]

I'm not in any vendetta against any plane, I've been flying since February -97 in Warbirds, and now AH2.

I'm just like most in here, observe what I see. Speaking with Eatg after that particular incident reinforced my belief.


A more detailed description of me would be, they are Very hard to kill from dead 6.

[Charge]

"When arranged in a true monocoque structure or a single spanwise spar and skin then it's simply a question of a higher tolerance to localized damage over a very broadly distributed stress system."

All the monocoque structures have a problem with projectiles of chemical composition since these are made to rapidly increase pressure inside the structure and rip it apart, that is, the main supporting structure. Because the thickness of the surface was greater I still don't think where was not a millimeter (that is 0.03937008 inches) of excess thickness due to creeping weight which plaqued the wooden aircraft structures. What was better with aluminum was that the metal would in some cases give in and bulge under pressure, where as the wooden structure would simply shatter due to its nature of being a natural composite of fibrous cellulose suspended in a lignin matrix+glue.

What was better in using wood was the nonstrategic nature of the raw material, uniform surface of the resulting skinning and, I'd bet, the resiliency to "tiring" which was a problem with aluminum designs, which after a time contributed to speed loss and sloppy maneuverability due to slowly increasing leaks and structureal elasticity. But laminated wooden structure is slow to manufacture and hard to make last in rough field conditions, as the Russians found out, and Brits, of course, when the upper surfaces of the wings began to depart the Mossie airframes.

"No magic necessary. Unless you're talking about the designers of course."

Not really. The solution was not magical, nor the designer were capable of that, not even if many people would like to believe that.

If it was, our planes today would be built of wood instead of steel, aluminum and advanced composite materials.

-C+

[nrshida]

All the monocoque structures have a problem with projectiles of chemical composition since these are made to rapidly increase pressure inside the structure and rip it apart, that is, the main supporting structure. Because the thickness of the surface was greater I still don't think where was not a millimeter (that is 0.03937008 inches) of excess thickness due to creeping weight which plaqued the wooden aircraft structures.

I think this would only be a problem with a considerable charge which would then have a similar consequence to a semi monocoque alloy structure.

Not really. The solution was not magical, nor the designer were capable of that, not even if many people would like to believe that.

"In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked." - Hermann Göring, 1943.

If it was, our planes today would be built of wood instead of steel, aluminum and advanced composite materials.

Your logic is backwards. The prevalence of modern composites supports the argument for the superiority of this kind of solution for many applications.

[Randy1]

I wonder if the pilot wound model takes into account pilot armor plate on planes like the yak and La7 with no head plate.

[PJ_Godzilla]

Maybe, but I'd note that likening modern composites to wood and then, by transit, claiming wood to be a better solution, is a flawed comparison.

One of the great things about carbon fiber sheets is that you can stack it in layers and use its single layer orthotropicity to make a tailored set of directional properties in a layup. You can do this with wood, too, sort of (plies), but wood has lots of local inhomogeneities, has lower strength to weight, and is arguably harder to shape. It's also prone to rot, whereas, afaik, the carbon is impervious to moisture.

These two are different animals in many respects. The only thing I'd say they share is their orthotropicity nature.

[Charge]

"In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked." - Hermann Göring, 1943."

Yeah, the most quoted piece of the brightest mastermind of German war effort used everywhere to underline the excellence of the Mossie.

-C+

[Zerstorer]

Yak3 has not given me the impression of being able to absorb much damage. It certainly isn't in the same category as a 47, Hellcat or Ki84.  I've always felt they were slightly above a Spit from a damage soaking perspective i.e. they go kaboom pretty easily once hit.  Maybe your impression is due to their small size i.e. they can be hard to hit, especially from a dead six position. 

If you are seeing hits on film then I guess that's out, but it's a possibility. 

[nrshida]

Yeah, the most quoted piece of the brightest mastermind of German war effort used everywhere to underline the excellence of the Mossie.

And British ingenuity in general. How are you getting on with the Me-410? Still butt hurt on a daily basis? Good, good.

[Zerstorer]

And British ingenuity in general. How are you getting on with the Me-410? Still butt hurt on a daily basis? Good, good.

410?  Blech.  Fun to kill bombers in, but even I'm not a big enough masochist to fly that thing on a regular basis against fighters.  I did manage to bag a spitteen once in a turn fight while flying one...but I'm pretty positive the pilot was a two-weeker.  I kinda felt bad for a few moments afterwards....but then quickly got over it.  

[PJ_Godzilla]

I had a brief dogfight with a b-25 yesterday. I first used the 410 to stitch him as he crossed under my nose 600 out. Then, from 200 on his low six gave him the full McGilla on my two stage trigger. First there were lots of sprites, the kaboom. Love that gun package but the bird is just too damn heavy.

[Charge]

"How are you getting on with the Me-410? Still butt hurt on a daily basis? Good, good."

Don't get concerned with my butt, it's not healthy for a fresh family man.

The 410 is a piece of krappola, but then again that was pretty much expected. A decent heavy fighter armed with MK103s would have caused a huge cry among allyfanbois.

-C+

[nrshida]

Don't get concerned with my butt, it's not healthy for a fresh family man.

 

The 410 is a piece of krappola, but then again that was pretty much expected. A decent heavy fighter armed with MK103s would have caused a huge cry among allyfanbois.

A decent heavy fighter armed with MK103s would have caused a huge cry among allyfanbois.

 

[Karnak]

"How are you getting on with the Me-410? Still butt hurt on a daily basis? Good, good."

Don't get concerned with my butt, it's not healthy for a fresh family man.

The 410 is a piece of krappola, but then again that was pretty much expected. A decent heavy fighter armed with MK103s would have caused a huge cry among allyfanbois.

-C+

Where do you get that idea?  I'd love to see a decent fighter with the MK103.  HTC creating a fantasy Me410 to do so isn't appropriate though.  Your insinuation that the Me410 was made to suck to placate a group of players is absurd.

[kano]

After studying the film i have of this incident Save its seems that the majority of your burst missed, from close ups of exterior of plane i could only count three holes 1 either side of the rear fuselage and 1 underneath the central fuselage.

I know the film viewer can sometimes be buggy and as you fired with tracers off its hard to judge where the rest of the shells went in game i distinctly remember the sound of a few pings but in the film it sounds like a solid couple of hits just before i began my evasive climbing turn.

I was also slightly nose down in a very slight left turn and not flying straight and level so whether this had slightly affected your aim i dont know.

As i said to you in pm's its does seem that there is a slight case of non consistency with the Damage model of the Yak3 as sometimes it seems to take a bit of punishment but others it will go down with a very short burst. The fuel tanks especially are susceptible to catching fire very easily and PW's are also very common.

Im not trying to say you dont see weird things happening with the YAK3 as sometimes when im fighting them i see bits coming off but they dont seem to go down when other planes would have.

 

EatG

P.S if you'd like the film from my perspective pm me your email and ill happily send it to you or i could possibly upload it to my youtube channel if i have time to convert it.