Author Topic: Naval Warfare  (Read 1714 times)

Offline Volron

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Naval Warfare
« on: August 01, 2014, 01:43:30 PM »
These are the things I wish to see implemented into Aces High:

Let's start off with lion's share of the meat:
The Damage Model/System for ships.

I would like to see a more detailed damage model and system implemented.  As is, when ships take damage, you see minor damage sustained (ship's mast/radar) with guns being knocked out (turrets being visibly damaged and soft guns gone).  That is it.  I would like to see holes in the deck and hull added, with listing, possibly oil trails, fire and smoke, all dependent on damage inflicted.  When damage is sustained to a ship, if appropriate, a ship should be slowed as a result.  Example: If a DD is struck on the Port Bow with a torpedo, it would become bow heavy and possibly list to Port and would likely become slowed.  If a bomb strikes Aft, if heavy enough, you will see a hole and possibly become aft heavy, also possibly becoming slowed.  Fire can indicate that a hole on deck as a result of a severe enough attack could be implemented to show for it.  A hole on the hull would show by listing/slowing with oil slick.  If, for example, a hit is severe enough to cause a ship to break in two and sink, it would happen.  You would see a fire and smoke with the ship sinking as a result of the attack.  Enough torpedoes hit at a point, example Port, it would list to port then capsize and sink if required torpedoes to sink it, hit.  Possibly adding rudder damage, it stuck upon damage for X time (2.5 minutes?), after said time has passed, rudder control is regained.  Something of this nature, for game play reasons, would only happen once unless the ship survives to repair itself to a certain point.  At which point it can happen again.  Slowing would be result of overall damage to the ship, and it will not regain it's full speed until it has repaired itself to a certain point, unless damage inflicted that would result in slowing, repairs itself but the ship itself has yet to take the overall damage required to slow it.  There may be need to implement a time limit on this as well, but slowing will (if the necessary damage is inflicted) will always happen.  Slowing will be "mandatory" when a ship has had enough damage inflicted overall.  On something like the Carrier in regards to fire, you will no longer have fire if just the radar is knocked out.  Fire only happens when enough damage to warrant it is inflicted (IE: Hole in deck and/or superstructure).  So just a knocked off the radar won't cause a fire (I've seen a 262 strafe a cv and light her up when I will doubt that a fire would break out as a result).  Oil trails would only be 15-20 miles from a ship; roughly dar ring.



Now for further ideas:
More Meat: The Carrier.

If a CV has received enough damage, flight ops and rearming are disabled for 5-10 minutes.  Bumping up the required amount to sink a CV to 12k, if a CV takes 8k of damage, flight ops and rearming are no longer possible for 5-10 minutes, CV is slowed.  The loss of flight/rearm is something that will only happen once until CV repairs itself above the 8k limit.  Example: A CV takes 8k of ords, flight and rearm is disabled for 5(?) minutes, you will still be able to land of course.  After this set time has passed, CV will regain these things.  However, overall damage will still be 8k but flight ops/rearm will no longer be disabled if further damage is inflicted until it repairs itself above 8k.  Like the rudder idea, it's a one time thing within x damage inflicted.  During this time, a hole in the deck and possible listing will be visible.  After the required time to reinstate flight/rearm, the cv will "right itself".  Think of it as counter flooding for the listing.  And while a hole with the fire and smoke will still be visible, just like bomb craters, this won't affect people's ability to take off or rearm.  Slowing will apply to the CV as with all ships, and will be dependent of amount of overall damage/damage inflicted that results in slowing.  Listing will only happen if damage applied would cause it, and only during the "down time" of flight/rearm.  This is all based off of the CV's required ords limit to sink her is bumped up to 12k.  I think a bump up would counter the loss of flight/rearm for a short time as a result of enough damage received.  If we are to keep the 8k requirement, drop the down time from 5ish minutes to 2.5, just like the rudder's time limit.  Respawn time of the CV will still be your box standard 10 minutes (least I think it's 10 minutes).  Another thing to note is that CVTG's will no longer be able to get with 25miles of a shoreline, reason will be listed later.  On some maps there will be exceptions as some port's spawn are well within this 25mile range.  Having the CV spawn with a fixed course away from this maybe be an option, with the only maneuvers executed until outside this 25mile range, are those from being in command, explained next.  CVTG's will no longer be able to spawn LVT's, but if there were implementation of Landing Ships, then these player controlled ships(?) could be launched from the CVTG's to shore.



Fleet Maneuvers.

When someone takes command of a Task Group, their should be options to do maneuvers with the click of a button (for game play reasons).  When you take command of a TG, a small clipboard will pop up and available commands to do maneuvers will show up.  Basic Example: 360 Circle L/R, 180 L/R, 45 L/R, etc.  These options will ONLY be available when someone takes command, and when someone does take command, they will "locked" into the tower of the CV.  If they are already in the air/ground/gun, they will not be able to take command and can only use the current waypoint system that is in place.  What this means is, you do not have to take command of the TG in order to move it around.  You will, however, have to take command to execute fleet maneuvers listed above, which are more defined and detailed in execution vs use of the waypoint system.

Most notable will be how ships visually execute these maneuvers.  Ordering a 360 L/R, all ships will do so as seen in many WW2 pictures and video's.  As is, they end up doing this strange "dance" (for lack of better word) to execute maneuver and return to position.  Right now, if you order a TG to do certain maneuvers, the escorts will end up all over the place and more often than not, go right through each other and/or the CV.  I would like to see more realistic speed and turn radius implemented.  When ordering a TG to do a 180, I will see the escorts all of a sudden move a WHOLE lot faster to return to position.  While it's obvious I know little about how fast DD's and CA's can move in relation to the CV, I am doubting that they can move that fast.  I know the CV slows a bit when executing a turn, but the speed at which the escorts move to regain positions just doesn't look right.  I am hoping someone will clarify.



Bombardment Task Group.

The inclusion of a Bombardment Task Group that can close to within a few miles of a shore, allowing the launch of Landing Craft and LVT's.  These ships will contain 2-4 CA's for heavy bombardment, with 6-10+ DD's for escort.  Adding a few troop carriers to the Bombardment TG would allow people to take away the ability to spawn Landing Craft and LVT's.  Giving these ships a 4k requirement to be sunk would balance it a bit, and there will be a few of them (3-6?).  They are, however, affected by strats (keeping it simple, Troop Training Facility).  So if it's sunk, it's out for half the time a barrack on land would be.  Unless there is the implementation of resupply at sea, having it only half would help but still give the ability to affect the Bombardment TG's ability for "troops".  Even going as far as these troop carriers only suffering a quarter of the penalty that barracks on land suffer may work better.  Just like the CVTG's, the ability to execute detailed maneuvers will only be allowable when being commanded by someone, who will be "locked" into the tower.  More options possible to readjust the fleet formation for bombardment purpose is something I think would work well.  So other than the "box standard" evasive maneuvers, there will be addition options to adjust the fleet formation for bombardment.  People will still be able to give rough directions to the Bombardment TG's via the waypoint system.  Later on down the line, when Battleships are implemented, the number of CA's would drop (for those that are given a BB) to 1-2 with the DD's remaining roughly the same, if not increased.
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
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Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 01:45:19 PM »
Player Controlled Ships (BASIC).

For player controlled ships, dependent on how and/or what is implemented, I would say to start that the heaviest ship class to be player controlled will be the Light Cruiser.  Reason I pull for the Light Cruiser class is to counter, more effectively, the Cruiser we currently have within the TG's.  When Battleships are implemented, give the player the ability to control a Heavy Cruiser to counter.  The reason to not go any higher is simply due to the fact that the BB's are locked into the task group.  A player controlled ship is, of course, not.  We can move freely compared to the BB, which translates to more maneuverability, which equals better survival.



Fire Control Tower in Task Group Ships.

Players will be able to control all of the appropriate guns from their respective Fire Control Towers.  When inside these towers, guns (if AAA able) are locked into HE only, which include both "auto" turrets and player controllable turrets.  This means that when in command of the Fletcher Class Destroyer's Fire Control Tower, the 3 "auto" turrets that would aid in puffy defense, won't, as they would be under player command.  This will not prevent players from hopping into a turret that could be manned, the exception is if all turrets from the Fire Control Tower can be manned.  At this point, one turret (the one not taken) will remain in the Fire Control Tower player's hand.



There it be.  A basic idea for Naval Warfare in Aces High.  With the new water coming, these might be feasible.  At the very least, worth a shot. :)
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 02:53:09 PM »


Nice write up  +1
If we have something to show we will & do post shots, if we have nothing new to show we don't.
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 03:11:52 PM »
Well thought post.

 a big +1
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Offline mbailey

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 03:18:09 PM »
My dream game.  I would love a good WW1 / WW2 naval ware fare game.....not sure how well it would translate here tho
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Offline Coalcat1

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 04:09:29 PM »
+1 great idea   :aok Hope hitech agrees

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 04:31:47 PM »
bored today huh?   :P

If HTC was going to build a "Navy" game then ya that looks cool, but I doubt that is high on their list.

Offline Volron

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 05:01:05 PM »
bored today huh?   :P

If HTC was going to build a "Navy" game then ya that looks cool, but I doubt that is high on their list.

Not so much. :lol

Because of the post I made in the FPS wish, I thought it out some more and decided to toss it out a basic idea. :)
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
Quote from: Pyro
Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline bustr

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 06:14:31 PM »
Fugi,

You and I are from a generation that only dreamed of AH as is today from AW 20 years ago. Most of these wishes to turn AH into a super fragilistc WWII Online are from generations after us who probably were not alive when .25 cent a round of Pong was a big friggen deal.

As much as skill is important to us on a meritocracy basis coupled with our imagination to fill in for the often rough graphics. Their wishes are from the expectation that the graphics and code itself will be taking the place of their imagination. Especially if they have to pay $14.95 for it. Opposed to all of the other "free" offerings out there competing to hold their imagination's figurative hand unlike Aces High.

Remember Fugi, some of the players in our game were kids when their mothers were afraid to let them walk to the store alone a few blocks away. Our mothers threw us out of the house with nothing and told us to go play all day. I suspect Hitech's mother did too. 

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 06:38:03 PM »
Our mothers threw us out of the house with nothing and told us to go play all day.


Lucky you  :old:

I was chained to a post in the basement, a broken spoon was my only toy and a dead rat my only friend :cry
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Offline FLOOB

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 07:00:39 PM »
There is something to be said of games that spark or to some degree require imagination. Old games were more like books, like Xenonauts. New games are more like cinema, like Enemy Unknown.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans” - John Steinbeck

Offline bustr

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 07:08:25 PM »
Well Lusche at least at the Peshawar Air Post radar and RB-57, U-2, ground control facility out side of Peshawar Pakistan. There was a 14 ft high wall around the USAFSS facility to keep us kids in and out of the reach of the locals. Kidnaping of westerners for ransom is a longstanding second source of income in that region.

We still found time to run wild everywhere else there wasn't fenced or guard to keep us out. And some of us still caught rabies, or broke our wrists as a result. 1960-64 there were about 3 broken wrists a year and 1 to 2 cases of rabies on that post amongst US personal dependent children in Pakistan. Broke my wrist and got rabies all in the same year. Few weeks in a cast, then 21 shots in the stomach, and I was good as new. Taking your lumps was an expected part of growing up back then.

And today a mother gets arrested for allowing her 7 year old to walk to the local park alone. So now Hitech is expected to hold our imagination's tiny little had just to go to the potty.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 07:17:30 PM »
 I didn't even know there was an "outside world" until I turned 29. Imagination was all I ever had  :old:

Actually, I'm not entirely sure I don't just imagine AH, the internet and you as well...  :noid
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Offline MK-84

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 11:12:59 PM »
There is something to be said of games that spark or to some degree require imagination. Old games were more like books, like Xenonauts. New games are more like cinema, like Enemy Unknown.

Well put.

Offline Someguy63

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Re: Naval Warfare
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 11:14:06 PM »
Great wishes!

+1 :aok
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