Lets discuss this in a civilized way

[R4M]

OK. Lets see. Honest question, and I expect honest answers.

Was possible in real life, to go up in a pure vertical move under the stall speed, in controlled flight?. Was it possible under those circunstances, to point the aircraft deliberately towards an enemy?. Was it possible, once pointed under those conditions to keep two/four cannons of 20mm to fire in a spray'n Pray fashion, while keeping the plane controled and pointed?.

If yes,I'd like to hear the reasons why it could be possible.

If no, I'd like to hear the reasons why it couldn't be possible.

Thanks.

[AKSWulfe]

In vertical flight, the wings have no effect on lift.

Therefore you technically can't stall under pure vertical conditions. However, once a speed as reached, the plane's engine will no longer be able to keep the nose up and it will drop from it's altitude into either a spin or uncontrolled flight until speed has been regained.

As long as there is a good amount of air moving over the control surfaces (~+20MPH), the plane will be able to retain directional control... but it won't be capable of level flight.
-SW

[Westy MOL]

In real life no because any pilot doing such a thing would be dead pretty fast.

 In an online arena there is no penalty for risking such a maneuver and shot. Therefore pilots go for the kill regardless.

 
 -- Westy

[R4M]

Now that we are at it I'd like to know the effects of the following:

-Prop Torque (including gyro effects, p factor, etc).
-Prop wash

on a very slow vertically moving plane (say, 30mph).

I'd like also to know wether firing a long burst from four 20mm cannons is enough to force the plane out of control immediatly or not.

All are completely serious questions   thanks for the answers so far.

[Hooligan]

Ever hear of a tailslide?

Hooligan

[AKSWulfe]

YOUR propwash won't send you out of control. It creates a funnel behind your plane, but leaves air moving over your tail section for limited control.

Torque effects will slowly rotate your plane at less than 10MPH if you do not counter it with aileron input. Ailerons become ineffective when no wind is moving over them.
-SW

[CRASH]

Of course they do, only your lift vector is horizontal.

CRASH

 

Originally posted by SWulfe:
In vertical flight, the wings have no effect on lift.

-SW

[AKSWulfe]

Well, the way the lift is used.

It's no longer required to keep the plane flying, it's only an effect that causes the plane to go sideways instead of up.
-SW

[AKDejaVu]

I've seen some of the Yak stunt planes hold themselves at 0 IAS without rotating... and that has to be one hell of alot of torque.

AKDejaVu

[DA98]

RAM, I've seen Yaks doing it in RL, it's really impressive. Come to Barcelona next summer and you will see it too  .

[R4M]

Ok, it can be done   wich is great 'cause I thot it couldn't...

now the last part of the question...can a plane doing that thing fire a long burst of 4 20mm cannons without losing control because the recoil?.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: R4M ]

[AKSWulfe]

The recoil would only slow it down.

So yes, it can do this... it will simply fall out of the vertical faster if it's firing as opposed to not firing.
-SW

[LePaul]

Originally posted by SWulfe:
YOUR propwash won't send you out of control. It creates a funnel behind your plane, but leaves air moving over your tail section for limited control.

Torque effects will slowly rotate your plane at less than 10MPH if you do not counter it with aileron input. Ailerons become ineffective when no wind is moving over them.
-SW

Ailerons are the first to go, you do not use them to counter engine torque.  You use the rudders for that.  Jump in a Cessna Skyhawk, do a few stalls.  First control to get mushy as stall speed approaches is the ailerons.

Learn to love the rudder  

[Animal]

YES, it can be done. (at least the P-38 can)
In fact, Ive seen pictures of a P-38J doing it a while back. Its a normal tailslide.
The plane is going directly vertical, when it loses all positive airflow, instead of stalling, the plane will just fly 'backwards' then the pilot can turn it around like a dime with rudder input.

I have done this several times in the Main Arena. ArtLaws used to love it when I did it  
Maybe both the P-38 and the Su-27 are very good at doing this since they have no torque  

[Karnak]

This is slightly of topic, but I was in a tight turn in a Typhoon once, with te stall buzzer going real loud.  I fired my cannons and wham was spun stalled into the ground.

The little bit of negative thrust from the cannons had caused me to depart controled flight.

That was in a turn however. As SWulfe says, firing any gun in a strictly verticle manuver will simply slow the aircraft down faster.  Obviously an N1K2 will feel this more than a C.202 will.