Let's talk Drones

[Tumor]

Drones will eventually replace human piloted aircraft.  We're a long way off yet (well maybe not) and military aviation "Leaders" (at a minimum) will fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening.  I predict billions of dollars being wasted dragging out the fight to keep pilots in the air.  But it's going to happen... eventually. 

That's my 2 cents.

[artik]

Reconnaissance: Absolutely

Air to Ground Attack: Neutral on this point

Air to Air Combat: Never

Actually it is all "Yes" for a very long time but in a little bit different way:

The first one was A2G - the V1 drone worked quite well...
The second role was A2A - the Soviet make lots of them like SA-2 and many others...
The latest to come were recon drones.

Basically there is no need for A2A drone - it what a good missile does very well... for a long time...

It is just a matter how do you look at it and how disposable drones are - as under enemy air supremacy even recon drone is "single use drone"

[Vulcan]

Intentionally targeting and executing civilians is not war, just plain murder.  The Allies were guilty of this during WWII, but bombing cities to destroy factories and infrastructure is hardly equivalent to concentration camp genocide. 

Our modern enemy is clothed as civilians and hides among them.  Collateral casualties in large numbers may be necessary to kill all the jihadists.  Tippy-toeing around has never worked.  It only sometimes shuts them up for a while.  The enemy holds no regard for their own populace, much less ours and gets their jollies killing innocents.  They are playing for keeps and the only way they will back down is by getting crushed on an unprecedented scale.  I don't mean break out the nukes, but unload everything else at them until they beg for mercy.  There is no diplomatic solution, so long as political correctness and the court of world opinion continues to appease them - even to the extent of letting them force their views and rules in our countries.

At some point you will wonder if you've become the terrorists: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/29/pakistan-family-drone-victim-testimony-congress

[danny76]

Why? Does it strike you as unsporting that we dont put your neighbors kid at risk of being blown to pieces? Maybe captured, tortured, and beheaded?

I for one dont care how we kill the enemy as long as they end up dead. There's nothing more pathetic then when we give a bunch of civilians a vote in the rules of engagement in a war they, or their kids, aren't fighting.

Ive talked to these troops coming back from I-crap and I-crapistan. They are just disgusted with these ROE's the couch warriors are forcing upon them.

^^^ This. Courageous Restraint?  My arse 

[Rich46yo]

Indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is now not only unnecessary but also unconscionable. Drones give you the option of surgical strikes of leadership, and at the least makes them keep their heads down. Lusche is right that intentionally targeting civilians will only make more Jihadist's, tho in the end I dont think it matters much cause they have no shortage of volunteers and supporters. So its as inhumane as it ever was but luckily also not needed with modern tech. We can deliver bombs within meters now, even smaller ords like Hellfires or 250 lb with smart kits.

I sympathize with the humanists but we do have to win this thing.

How terrible is war when you can zap your enemies while sitting comfortably thousands of miles away? Having such advanced technology seems to me to make war a lot easier and thus makes us much more prone to starting them.

I dont agree cause we didnt start this but it doesnt seem like bad advice to keep in mind. We need the drones but we also need a conscious.

[Fish42]

Indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is now not only unnecessary but also unconscionable. Drones give you the option of surgical strikes of leadership, and at the least makes them keep their heads down. Lusche is right that intentionally targeting civilians will only make more Jihadist's, tho in the end I dont think it matters much cause they have no shortage of volunteers and supporters. So its as inhumane as it ever was but luckily also not needed with modern tech. We can deliver bombs within meters now, even smaller ords like Hellfires or 250 lb with smart kits.

I sympathize with the humanists but we do have to win this thing.
 I dont agree cause we didnt start this but it doesnt seem like bad advice to keep in mind. We need the drones but we also need a conscious.

Drones give you the option true... but you need local intel and visual identification. Even the people ordering the drones strikes, don't 100% know who they are hitting or how many are killed. The US (CIA) counts All Males, that are military aged as militants, if they are around the target, unless they have clear evidence to counter this (guilty until proven innocent and sorry about the death in the family). So a family, who by no fault of their own, could have their father & brothers killed in a strike and they would be labeled as terrorists. Nice way to lower that Civilian death toll.

Many people in the zones that these Drones are operating, are fast seeing America as the Terrorists. People living in fear that they might be a target because they were in the wrong area, is a good way to grow hate.

 

[bozon]

Many people in the zones that these Drones are operating, are fast seeing America as the Terrorists. People living in fear that they might be a target because they were in the wrong area, is a good way to grow hate.

These people were not waving red white and blue before. They hate America anyway, bombing them just intensifies what already exists.

The US (CIA) counts All Males, that are military aged as militants, if they are around the target, unless they have clear evidence to counter this (guilty until proven innocent and sorry about the death in the family). So a family, who by no fault of their own, could have their father & brothers killed in a strike and they would be labeled as terrorists. Nice way to lower that Civilian death toll.

That is interesting. The UN on the other hand counts anyone who is not in uniform + holding a weapon + in active fighting, as a civilian. So a militant that got out of his hole to buy cigarettes and got whacked is counted as a civilian.

[Slate]

  We don't need larger Drones we need smaller ones. Imagine a swarm of insect size killers going through the Jihadist camps and the Shock and Awe that would cause. 

     http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-bug-sized-drones-are-scary-2013-2

[bozon]

  We don't need larger Drones we need smaller ones. Imagine a swarm of insect size killers going through the Jihadist camps and the Shock and Awe that would cause. 

     http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-bug-sized-drones-are-scary-2013-2

Good idea! we can paint them with black and orange stripes, attach a needle with a small sack of poison to their butts and release them among the Jihadists!
Here is a sketch of my design:

[Hetzer7]

"Wonder weapons"? By God, I don't see the wonder in them. Killing without heroics?
Nothing is glorified? Nothing is reaffirmed? No heroes, no cowards, no troops, no generals.
Only those who are left alive, and those who are left... dead. I'm glad I won't live to see it.

[Dragon]

Why does the mind wander to military grade, armed UAV's when someone says "Drone"?

Let the military have their drones.



Plenty of uses out there for UAV's or UAS's as the term is now changing to as the systems become more than a bird and a controller.  The US is so far behind the times in "drones" we may never catch up. 

[Rich46yo]

"Wonder weapons"? By God, I don't see the wonder in them. Killing without heroics?
Nothing is glorified? Nothing is reaffirmed? No heroes, no cowards, no troops, no generals.
Only those who are left alive, and those who are left... dead. I'm glad I won't live to see it.

I doubt his troops shared his love for "heroic" slaughter. Especially since it was them getting slaughtered. Tens of millions dieing and Patton's main worry was how history would remember him.

Generals love war. Its their chance to shine and get promoted. The average grunt hates it since its their chance to get their guts blown out.

[Hetzer7]

I doubt his troops shared his love for "heroic" slaughter. Especially since it was them getting slaughtered. Tens of millions dieing and Patton's main worry was how history would remember him.

Generals love war. Its their chance to shine and get promoted. The average grunt hates it since its their chance to get their guts blown out.

I totally agree. But drones and standoff warfare does sanitize war and this topic made Patton's quote stand out for argument.

[GScholz]

I think Patton, in his own inept way, was just trying to invoke Robert E. Lee: "It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it."

[DREDIOCK]

I doubt his troops shared his love for "heroic" slaughter. Especially since it was them getting slaughtered. Tens of millions dieing and Patton's main worry was how history would remember him.

Generals love war. Its their chance to shine and get promoted. The average grunt hates it since its their chance to get their guts blown out.

Pattons 3rd army had the lowest casualty rate of any Allied army in the European theater of operations


"A pint of Sweat will save a gallon of blood"


"No bastard won a war by dieing for his country."

You should read up more. His entire doctrine was to stay aggressive. An enemy on the run is less able to fight back

" His instinctive preference for offensive movement was typified by an answer Patton gave to war correspondents in a 1944 press conference. In response to a question on whether the Third Army's rapid offensive across France should be slowed to reduce the number of U.S. casualties, Patton replied, "Whenever you slow anything down, you waste human lives.""