Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.

[Mister Fork]

Diesels are actually pretty clean.

Volcano in Hawaii puked more co2 yesterday than mankind has since we have been on this planet.

That has been debunked - it's equi to a day-and-a-half of a coal plant.  It's emitting a tonne of gasses - but not THAT much. Still not great for locals when mixed with volcanic UFP (ultra-fine particles of sharp volcanic ash). Tears up the lungs pretty good.

[BoilerDown]

INteresting opinion on a 3 year old topic bruh.  Boiler - you're forgetting that the amount of emissions used to create a EV from all the rare-earth minerals for the electrical systems and lithium batteries is the same as running a Hummer for 18 years.  Yes, that beast. After 18 years, you break even on CO2 and environmental harm from an EV compared to a domestic large vehicle. Not to mention, most of the EV components are not recyclable - they'll end up in a landfill where most car parts get melted down and reused in new cars.

You quoted a lot of specific numbers there, care to reveal where you obtained them?

I don't believe any of it, by the way.  We can probably agree that plastic, aluminum and steel are all recyclable, so lets leave the majority of the car out of this, it is recyclable.

The majority of the rest is the battery, and Tesla recycles them (this blog post is from 2011, so they've been at it for at least 7 years): https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program .  The batteries have also been shown to have had remarkably low degradation, so they'll have a usable amount of charge for decades, not a half-decade like people feared based on early Leafs.  https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-battery-packs-live-longer

And what rare-earth minerals are in EVs?  Cobalt?  Cobalt isn't a rare-earth element.  And Telsa uses less Cobalt in its batteries than anyone else, and is planning to decrease that amount to zero going forwards.   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/tesla-supercharging-its-model-3-means-less-cobalt-more-nickel

In the motors?  The Model S (which this thread is about) uses an Induction Motor, which means it doesn't use a (rare earth) magnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor .  Not that rare earth magnets are actually bad anyways: https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/rare-earth-magnets-2/why-are-samarium-cobalt-and-neodymium-magnets-called-rare-earth-magnets

So what Rare Earths are you even talking about? 

For that matter, is there anything to substantiate anything in your post, at all?

[Skuzzy]

Bah, they can keep EV's.  I have seen two dead ones on the freeway due to stop and go traffic issues.  They simply ran down.  Nothing they could do.  Charging stations are hit and miss, at best, when you are on the open (well,....they are not really ever open around here) road.

[MiloMorai]

Way back in the day petrol stations were few and far between.

[BoilerDown]

Air conditioning can run anyone out of... mileage, gas or electric.  That said, EVs get most efficient at slower speeds, because air resistance goes up by the square of velocity.  So they're fundamentally more tolerant of stop and go traffic, not less.   The overhead of air conditioning (or heat in winter to a lesser degree) can be a problem for smaller battery EVs that have to dip into their reserves unexpected.

Here's a few charts most people here can appreciate: http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis5.php

The best thing about an EV is arguably the ability to leave home with a full "tank" every day.  No need to "fill up" unless you're going on (and in the middle of) a long trip.

[Shuffler]

That has been debunked - it's equi to a day-and-a-half of a coal plant.  It's emitting a tonne of gasses - but not THAT much. Still not great for locals when mixed with volcanic UFP (ultra-fine particles of sharp volcanic ash). Tears up the lungs pretty good.

In CO2 true.... 200 million tons compared to 24 billion per year. So man is better for plants and trees than the volcanoes. Other than the poisonous gasses around some volcanoes....

Of course I have a good friend who emits poisonous gases from time to time.

[Shuffler]

Bah, they can keep EV's.  I have seen two dead ones on the freeway due to stop and go traffic issues.  They simply ran down.  Nothing they could do.  Charging stations are hit and miss, at best, when you are on the open (well,....they are not really ever open around here) road.

Of the two charging stations that I am aware of, I have never seen either of them in use.

Trains make sense as they are like the old subs... diesel electric. Cars and trucks make little sense.

[Mister Fork]

You quoted a lot of specific numbers there, care to reveal where you obtained them?

I don't believe any of it, by the way.  We can probably agree that plastic, aluminum and steel are all recyclable, so lets leave the majority of the car out of this, it is recyclable.

The majority of the rest is the battery, and Tesla recycles them (this blog post is from 2011, so they've been at it for at least 7 years): https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program .  The batteries have also been shown to have had remarkably low degradation, so they'll have a usable amount of charge for decades, not a half-decade like people feared based on early Leafs.  https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-battery-packs-live-longer

And what rare-earth minerals are in EVs?  Cobalt?  Cobalt isn't a rare-earth element.  And Telsa uses less Cobalt in its batteries than anyone else, and is planning to decrease that amount to zero going forwards.   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/tesla-supercharging-its-model-3-means-less-cobalt-more-nickel

In the motors?  The Model S (which this thread is about) uses an Induction Motor, which means it doesn't use a (rare earth) magnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor .  Not that rare earth magnets are actually bad anyways: https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/rare-earth-magnets-2/why-are-samarium-cobalt-and-neodymium-magnets-called-rare-earth-magnets

So what Rare Earths are you even talking about? 

For that matter, is there anything to substantiate anything in your post, at all?

I could ask you for the same on your side - University study on a EV is NOT 0% emissions ->Here. This is just to DRIVE a EV - not talking about what's required to make it. So, yes, your EV car MAY get up to 40-55MPG on the emission side. Which is great, except that my Honda Civic got that 25 years ago on a morning commute.  And it keeps on getting better with most petrol vehicles getting close to zero-emissions.

And here's the kicker about all the EV and green stuff..

It usually means I have to BUY something new...so it feeds the infinite consumerist model - and everyone forgets we live on a planet with finite resources.




And that - isn't very green is it? 

[Vulcan]

Even the dirtiest coal-powered electricity charged EV is much cleaner than it would be if it were replaced by an internal combustion engine.  So you'd still come out ahead.  What's more, that same EV will get cleaner and cleaner over time, as the dirty power is replaced by cleaner power.  No gas vehicle can make that claim.

The link posted by Mister Fork would indicate otherwise.

[qupte]on the other extreme are Botswana and Gibraltar (which generate 100% of their electricity from coal and oil), each with 29.0 MPGghg (8.1 L/100 km)[/quote]

Which is fairly close to my 2.2l diesel SUV.

And have a read here: https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

So EVs are not all rosey. The fundamental issue is we need a clean green cheap energy source. At the moment the lack of that degrades the value of EVs for the environment. I'm not saying EVs are bad, I'd buy one at the drop of a hat if there was the appropriate energy solution and they got their range sorted out.

[icepac]

In order to shift totally to electric cars, you would need the capacity to charge them.

Sure, nothing is cheaper than Mains electricity but imagine your country having dads arrive home at 5:30pm and plugging in a near dead model S into a 11kw charger.

[puller]

Volcano in Hawaii puked more co2 yesterday than mankind has since we have been on this planet.

Lol +1

[Oldman731]

For that matter, is there anything to substantiate anything in your post, at all?

You see, this is why people should try not to be nasty.

- oldman

[BoilerDown]

In order to shift totally to electric cars, you would need the capacity to charge them.

Sure, nothing is cheaper than Mains electricity but imagine your country having dads arrive home at 5:30pm and plugging in a near dead model S into a 11kw charger.

The capacity is there now.  If your commute is only 30 minutes, as your post implies, then you've barely drained the battery at all.  And you can easily have it charge when the rates drop if you choose.

[save]

One big thing about electric cars, if you have really cold winters, use heating, and headlights on,  the range can go down to 1/3rd- 1/4th of the normal range.

[Skuzzy]

The capacity is there now.  If your commute is only 30 minutes, as your post implies, then you've barely drained the battery at all.  And you can easily have it charge when the rates drop if you choose.

If everyone had an EV the electric grid of the U.S. would collapse.  We are barely able to maintain the grid in many parts of the U.S., during the summer months, right now.  Add a few million people plugging in their cars, within hours of each other, and bad things will happen.