Report of F35A vs F16Cblk40 goes public

[Gman]

Not.  Good.

Apparently the F16C Block40 with 2 underwing fuel tanks is able to smoke the F35A when it's completely clean, with NO internal or external armaments, just fuel. 

Pretty brutal report, from the sounds of it the F35 is completely at the F16's mercy.  This means it's at the F15/18's mercy too, as well as probably threats like the Mig29, Su27 series, as well as Chinese fighters like their J10s, J11s, and upcoming stealth fighters (perhaps).  Not good news.  Not at all.  So much for the "about as maneuverable as an F16".  So much BS regarding that. 

Read this:

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875


http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-beat-the-plane-its-replacing-in-a-dogfigh-1714712248

Or course, this is in a sticks and stones fight, I guess the US and other NATO forces will just have to hope the sensors and weapons will allow a lot of BVR engagements vs future opponents, however history has shown close range fights almost always end up happening.  And if/when they do, the F35 isn't going to win many of them.

[Saxman]

Yeah, gonna be hard to spin that.

Looks like a confirmed kill.

[Gman]

Agreed, both sources are excellent, Tyler at Fortress America has more contacts in the defense department both current and former than any journalist I've ever seen or read.  Very rarely steered wrong on intel from his current site and his former military aviation one.

I found it very interesting when the F35 pilot said his F15E Strike Eagle was more capable in A2A than the F35, and that's a far heavier jet than most potential adversaries, and although very able in A2A, not a dedicated bird like a 15C or F22, or even 29s and 27 variants.

This is really all kinds of bad, and keeping it secret is going to be hard, as more and more F35s come into the pipeline and are used in exs vs other US units, as well as when the Allies using them realize it truly sucks at VR combat.  Very disappointing, I'll admit to being one of those who believed that it would roll with an  F16, now it seems it's a huge dog.

This part from the F35 pilot really sums it up:

The F-35 pilot came right out and said it — if you’re flying a JSF, there’s no point in trying to get into a sustained, close turning battle with another fighter. “There were not compelling reasons to fight in this region.” God help you if the enemy surprises you and you have no choice but to turn.

[PR3D4TOR]

Yeah, I'd like to see that report...

[PR3D4TOR]

Also if that F-16 had been carrying the 370 wing tanks he'd be limited to 5 G's... I find this very suspect.

[Gman]

This type of story, a true test of the A2A ability of the F35 has been awaited for a long time, it's going to be a feeding frenzy, so I'm sure more info will come out regarding the source and possibly pilot who wrote it.  Again, both these sites are very good at verifying their sources, and Tyler Rogoway has been doing this a long, long time, and probably has confirmed it before he would ever post it.  He's actually a defender of the F35 as well, particularly the B.

Time will tell, but it would surprise me if this was just cooked up by some cook who dislikes the F35.

edit - that's actually a good point about the tanks and the imposed limit on Gs on the F16 with them.  I'll ask that in the comments there, a lot of US pilots post and respond there.

[Zimme83]

If its true its bad news for the F-35.

[eagl]

Its a "strike" fighter.  Its also joint.  That makes it a tiny single engine single seat F-111 that can take off and land vertically at the expense of being far far slower than an F-111.  Everything that was "wrong" about the F-111 is also wrong about the F-35.  Not many of the things that were "right" about the F-111 (speed, 2-seat, tons of gas and bomb load, etc) are "right" about the F-35 though.

But the F-35 is front-aspect low observable, which I guess makes up for it being slow, at least on the way to the target.  On the way back home it can both be seen and chased down.

[Scherf]

Hey man, it's got that single-engine reliability you want for over-water operations, say from Australia.

What could *possibly* go wrong?

[Triton28]

But the F-35 is front-aspect low observable, which I guess makes up for it being slow, at least on the way to the target.  On the way back home it can both be seen and chased down.

Boom headshot.  I'll hang my head in shame now.  diddly you guys, I'm going home.   

[PR3D4TOR]

I find myself agreeing with this gentleman over at Foxtrotalpha:

I’m not buying it with good reason. I believe sometimes these so called reports (I am NOT laying this at Tyler’s feet in any way) are put out there by writes who forget there are former military pilots like myself, who never flew an F-35 Lightning II, but did fly F-16 C & D’s.... along with the F-15- C variant. And who have many great friends who flew the F-16 variants and were promoted ad moved into the Lightning II program.(F-35) and fly it every day they are asked to.

I can say I have friends who I speak to regularly who fly both F-35 and F-22 aircraft. Many of the young guys who put all the hours on the F-117’s were first choices to go into both Gen-5 stealth aircraft models. The F-117 was EXTREMELY close t the F-16 cockpit, but I was not chosen for that program.

In my 26 year active an even now in strategic recall status, I have seen weapon systems dogged by unseen powerful entities for several reasons. Some were dogged out of political rhetoric. Some get figuratively chopped because of more important programs. An example of this being Carter shelving the original Mach 2.2 B-1 Lancer. Causing some to rage against the machine, but it was really done to finish paying for ad building the B-2 Spirit. Reagan re-awoke the B-1 program with a salted down B-1-B capable of Mach 1.25 yet now sporting a bit of stealth quality of its own. It also took the strain off the B-52 Buff’s and allowed for the axing of the F-111 Aardvark.

I would say the closest analog of the F-35 fight is the USAF doing everything it can to run a spear through the heart of the A-10 Thunderbolt 2. The different branches of the Military all have a yearly budget. However, the F-35 is crossing all three Jet flying services. The USAF, The USN and The USMC all ill fly the F-35. So one guess is that one of the Military branches is losing a ton of budget appropriations to the F-35 program so they are throwing as many things against the F-35 wall trying to make something stick, while flying the very capable aircraft they already fly. There may be SOME truth there, but I don’t believe that is the primary reason.

Even so, the stick being poked into the F-35’s eye feels and looks like something else I’ve seen before. Albeit on a smaller scale

My opinion of how to find the culprit is always the same.... Follow the cash. In this case, follow the supertanker full of cash. First let me ask this....

*Who is building the F-35..? Lockheed, Right..?

* Who is the largest supplier of military jey aircraft to the USA..? Boeing...

Because of Lockheed getting the F-35, Boeing is out...

By understanding who has the most to lose from the Joint Strike Fighter program. You get an idea why they are carving up the reputation of what my very good and trustworthy USAF pilot friends say about the F-35 Jet Fighter. And THEY SAY (The Men who fly it daily) that it is a fantastic fighter jet. One that is superior over all but the most elite US fighter aircraft.

[artik]

Ok... How is it surprising? You could look into specs to realize this...

I assume F-35 stealth give it nice edge in penetration of heavily protected airspace and F-35B would be good for small carriers.

Other than that it is just overpriced F-117 that can takeoff and lend vertically and have some limited A2A capabilities.

[JVboob]

F16s dont need steath tech theyre just plain Bad arse 

[bozon]

You don't need stealth after you bombed their HQ and their city is below 50%.

[Schwalbee]

You don't need stealth after you bombed their HQ and their city is below 50%.

rofl. This is all that needs to be understood 😂

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