P-51B "Ding Hao!" - James Howard

[Devil 505]

I agree with Oboe on many of his points. Try adding a feathered line of OD to the leading edge of the lower wing. Based on the look of some of your weathering in the area, there doesn not seem to be much if any stretching on the lower wing near the leading edge.

The cowl panels I don't believe can be easily fixed though. The manifold itself is not inline with the fuselage correctly, to adjust the panel lines to align with the angle of the manifold will probably throw off the correct appearance of the cowl panels.

[Vraciu]

Thanks, Oboe, Devil505.

I am in Nigeria at the moment.  Will try to respond with more detail shortly, assuming I don't get blocked.

I appreciate the input.   Let me take a crack at it and, with some luck, I will have something to show you soon based on your advice.   In any event, I hope everyone is happy with the results so far.    Sure is different than doing NMF!   

You guys are the best.   Thanks again for all the help.  I am grateful.   

[Devil 505]

Nigeria? You didn't fall for that email scam did you? It's a trap! 

Your welcome. This plane looks better every time you post pics, keep it up. 

[oboe]

I agree with Oboe on many of his points. Try adding a feathered line of OD to the leading edge of the lower wing. Based on the look of some of your weathering in the area, there doesn not seem to be much if any stretching on the lower wing near the leading edge.

The cowl panels I don't believe can be easily fixed though. The manifold itself is not inline with the fuselage correctly, to adjust the panel lines to align with the angle of the manifold will probably throw off the correct appearance of the cowl panels.

Actually I think the manifold is correctly oriented in the game model.  It seems like the whole nose section of the '51 is mounted at a 2 degree down angle to the rest of the fuselage. 

Here's the best picture I can find of it:


Line A is the extension of the panel line that runs just under the cockpit and back to the tail section.   Line B is the panel line just above the exhaust manifold.  I think we all expect the horizontal panel lines to be parallel, and "see" them as such but in fact they are off by about 2 degrees.

I just noticed this myself the other day.  Some P-51 panel line reference drawings have this correct, some profiles have it correct, others probably don't.  My eye notices it now though.  I don't know about the other P-51 skins in the game but I think Cactus got it right with the default P-51D skin. 

Crazy, huh?  Does that mean they intentionally designed the engine mount to have its thrust line at a 2 degree angle to the rest of the plane?
 

[Vraciu]

I noticed this myself (the panel lines not matching the manifold angle).   I just assumed it was a quirk of the modeling.   


This is gonna be a tough one.   


Lol at Devil on the scam thing.   They owe me a fortune.  I am here to collect!

[oboe]

Its really not that bad.  Just draw a horizontal line segment, rotate it 2 degrees (check angle against the manifold to be sure its correct, tho I'm pretty certain 2 degrees is the right value).

Put it where you want, and trim to fit.  You can copy and paste for the other parallel panel lines in the nose section.  The hardest thing to get used to is that its no longer a pure smooth line - its a little fuzzy and jagged because of the rotation (at least in Photoshop it is).   But, you may find it looks more natural being in alignment with the manifold now.  And you're gonna be reducing the opacity to what, 5-10% anyway.

Dang, I just noticed Ding Hao! has a birdcage canopy, not the Malcolm bubble like AH's '51B.   I wish HTC would add both the birdcage '51B and an early '51D without the tail fillet, so  skins could be put on the historically accurate airframe (plus, twice as many P-51 skin slots, muhahahah!)

[Vraciu]

Its really not that bad.  Just draw a horizontal line segment, rotate it 2 degrees (check angle against the manifold to be sure its correct, tho I'm pretty certain 2 degrees is the right value).

Put it where you want, and trim to fit.  You can copy and paste for the other parallel panel lines in the nose section.  The hardest thing to get used to is that its no longer a pure smooth line - its a little fuzzy and jagged because of the rotation (at least in Photoshop it is).   But, you may find it looks more natural being in alignment with the manifold now.  And you're gonna be reducing the opacity to what, 5-10% anyway.

Dang, I just noticed Ding Hao! has a birdcage canopy, not the Malcolm bubble like AH's '51B.   I wish HTC would add both the birdcage '51B and an early '51D without the tail fillet, so  skins could be put on the historically accurate airframe (plus, twice as many P-51 skin slots, muhahahah!)

Fear not.  It had a Malcolm Hood later so it will be accurate. 

I will get to work on the panel lines and wing demarcation feathering today.   

[Vraciu]

Wing leading edge blended.  It still stretches so I did the best I could.  A single pixel is enough to make it go from acceptable to ridiculous.

Canopy is effectively finished.

Now all I need to know is how thick the white stripes are on the wings and stabs.   Once I get that done it is a matter of cleaning it up and adding the numbers...


Also gotta' work on the panel lines around the exhaust.  Will save that for last.

[Devil 505]

I'd say you nailed the leading edge. 

Note on the stripes: stripes on the tail and elevator were rarely the same width as those on the main wings. If you can't find reference on this plane in particular, then try to find one of another from the squadron at the same time.

[Vraciu]

I'd say you nailed the leading edge. 

Thanks man.   That was a great suggestion.  It makes a massive difference in how it looks. 

It still stretched some, but Oboe was right.  In this case attacking it from below was the best option.   It worked.

Note on the stripes: stripes on the tail and elevator were rarely the same width as those on the main wings. If you can't find reference on this plane in particular, then try to find one of another from the squadron at the same time.

I will keep looking.   The wing stripes need to be wider based on the look of the gear door (and when compared to the gear bay internals).

[Vraciu]

Hi Vraciu,

...

Also check the location of your gun camera port - it looks a little low to me, compared to the reference photo.

<S>

If you move the gun camera port any higher is stretches into a translucent blob.  I put it as high as it would go without distorting.   

[Greebo]

Its looking good Vraciu.

Incidentally the slight downward mounting of the engine in an aircraft is not that unusual. Most R/C model aircraft have a couple of degrees of down thrust and right thrust built in to the design. The idea is to counter power on versus power off trim changes.

[Vraciu]

Its looking good Vraciu.

Incidentally the slight downward mounting of the engine in an aircraft is not that unusual. Most R/C model aircraft have a couple of degrees of down thrust and right thrust built in to the design. The idea is to counter power on versus power off trim changes.

Thanks man.

Yeah I imagine the F6F has a pretty pronounced down angle on the motor mounts.

BTW, are these airplanes modeled asymmetrically?   It seems like one wing is longer than the other.  If I copy/paste panel lines over they don't square up.    I end up having to shift things a few pixels in one direction or the other.  Then when they look right from the viewer they are slightly off from the cockpit.

 

[Greebo]

I've never tried skinning the P-51 so I don't know. It is not likely the wings are different sizes, HTC would just make one half of the whole aircraft and then tell the CAD program to make a mirror of it for the other side.

It is possible the texture has been applied a little out of scale on one side though. The AH1 shapes are awful for that sort of thing, the textures can be distorted all over the place. However the P-51 is an early AH2 shape. The similarly aged shapes I have worked on like the B-24, Spits or P-47s may have some stretching here and there but I don't recall having problems copying stuff from left to right. To be sure I suggest lining up the copied lines against fixed reference points like control surfaces and gear doors, you might find that the copied lines line up with the gear doors but are then a few pixels short of lining up with the end of the aileron for example. In this case you'd just have to adjust each line individually to match the reference points.

BTW pop quiz: Does anyone know which two AH planes actually did have different length left and right wings in RL?

[Devil 505]

Greebo and Vraciu, In working with the Ki-84 I have also seen wings not scaled the same left to right.