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Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 81455 times)

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #450 on: July 05, 2016, 11:02:51 AM »
No Zimme. The public gets no say in what weapons the military buys. That's not how democracy works. Not in America, nor in Sweden. Unless you think you have some say in what the SwAF buys? Well... You don't. The fundamental problem I see here is that some people like Vraciu are more willing to believe and trust a blogger who has no experience with the F-35 whatsoever rather than the USAF personnel who operates the jet. It is an irrational conspiracy theory that the USAF and the air forces of a dozen other nations are all lying about the F-35.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #451 on: July 05, 2016, 11:07:41 AM »
The public should trust the professional soldiers to buy the equipment they need, and believe them when they say they're happy with it. If the public can't even trust their own military on something as basic as that then the country has a lot bigger problems that a potentially dud jet fighter...
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #452 on: July 05, 2016, 11:13:10 AM »
I don't expect you to agree, you are after all one of the biggest fanboys i've met on the net. You must be a car salesman's dream. 'The manufacturer says its awesome so it has to be true since they and noone else should know'.

Building fighters is not so much about building the best plane to the lowest cost. There are a ton of 'politics' involved, The different branches have their fights about being the most important one, LM wants to get as much money as possible and so on. Noone will ever say 'We have spend 20 years and a trillion dollar on a plane that turns out to be not so spectacular as we thought'..

Quote from: GScholz on July 05, 2016, 11:07:41 AM
The public should trust the professional soldiers to buy the equipment they need, and believe them when they say they're happy with it. If the public can't even trust their own military on something as basic as that then the country has a lot bigger problems that a potentially dud jet fighter...

Usually noone cares until the soldiers are killed due to poor equipment, it has happened multiple times before.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #453 on: July 05, 2016, 11:48:24 AM »
Quote from: Zimme83 on July 05, 2016, 11:13:10 AM
I don't expect you to agree, you are after all one of the biggest fanboys i've met on the net. You must be a car salesman's dream. 'The manufacturer says its awesome so it has to be true since they and noone else should know'.

The United States Air Force should know. The Royal Air Force should know. The Royal Australian Air Force should know. The Royal Danish Air Force should know. The Israeli Air Force should know. The Italian Air Force should know. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force should know. The Royal Netherlands Air Force should know. The Royal Norwegian Air Force should know. The Republic of Korea Air Force should know. The Turkish Air Force should know.

A Lapland nurse should not know.


Quote from: Zimme83 on July 05, 2016, 11:13:10 AM
Usually noone cares until the soldiers are killed due to poor equipment, it has happened multiple times before.

The soldiers care... and have often spoken out when they feel their equipment is not satisfactory. Which is why I find it so irrational that some people think the soldiers are lying when they praise their equipment.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #454 on: July 05, 2016, 12:01:17 PM »
I highly doubt that politicians 20 years ago had the slightest idea of what the F-35 can and cannot do in 5+ years when it hopefully will be operational (for real combat, not on paper)..
And most countries do not buy a plane because its the best, if the F-35 was built by SAAB none of these countries would have bought it.. They buy an American plane because they believe it would give them other benefits.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #455 on: July 05, 2016, 12:06:42 PM »
Most countries don't want to buy planes from SAAB because they don't want to buy military equipment from neutral cowards.



 :aok
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #456 on: July 05, 2016, 12:14:08 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 05, 2016, 11:02:51 AM
No Zimme. The public gets no say in what weapons the military buys. That's not how democracy works. Not in America, nor in Sweden. Unless you think you have some say in what the SwAF buys? Well... You don't. The fundamental problem I see here is that some people like Vraciu are more willing to believe and trust a blogger who has no experience with the F-35 whatsoever rather than the USAF personnel who operates the jet. It is an irrational conspiracy theory that the USAF and the air forces of a dozen other nations are all lying about the F-35.


Excuse me...   Just because he has insight that is contrary (superior) to yours doesn't make him a conspiracy theorist.   He is an analyst and very good at it.

The JSF has failed every metric set for it--repeatedly.   

It was poorly designed to fight yesterday's war.

DOA.

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”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #457 on: July 05, 2016, 12:15:54 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 05, 2016, 11:07:41 AM
The public should trust the professional soldiers to buy the equipment they need, and believe them when they say they're happy with it. If the public can't even trust their own military on something as basic as that then the country has a lot bigger problems that a potentially dud jet fighter...


There is a long line of "dud" weapons programs littering our history.  No, I don't trust "professionals" who are looking toward their post-retirement fluff job as an advisor to some major defense contractor.

The F-35 is a boondoggle and will never be anything else.
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”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #458 on: July 05, 2016, 12:17:54 PM »
Quote from: GScholz on July 05, 2016, 11:48:24 AM
The United States Air Force should know. The Royal Air Force should know. The Royal Australian Air Force should know. The Royal Danish Air Force should know. The Israeli Air Force should know. The Italian Air Force should know. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force should know. The Royal Netherlands Air Force should know. The Royal Norwegian Air Force should know. The Republic of Korea Air Force should know. The Turkish Air Force should know.

A Lapland nurse should not know.


The soldiers care... and have often spoken out when they feel their equipment is not satisfactory. Which is why I find it so irrational that some people think the soldiers are lying when they praise their equipment.


Yes, they SHOULD know.   But honor is in short supply these days.  Career six-covering and preserving the flying club are more important than doing what's right. 

We are pouring an endless amount of money into something that will never work at the expense of everything else that actually does.   

Pathetic. 
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”KILLER V”
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #459 on: July 05, 2016, 12:25:20 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:37:14 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #460 on: July 05, 2016, 12:27:28 PM »
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:37:26 PM by Skuzzy »
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”KILLER V”
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #461 on: July 05, 2016, 12:29:45 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:37:52 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #462 on: July 05, 2016, 12:34:53 PM »
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:38:08 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #463 on: July 05, 2016, 12:37:57 PM »
None of those aircraft are duds. And the context of this thread is the F-35: An aircraft.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:41:59 PM by GScholz »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #464 on: July 05, 2016, 12:51:09 PM »
You can still not deny the fact that other factors than the plane performance is considered when an aircraft is selected. Take F-16 for ex, from the beginning a cheap but mediocre plane but thanks to the fact its an American plane it have been sold in large numbers.
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