Big Battle layout for BOB scenario?

[Viper61]

Squire:

  Hoping you will incorporate the changes put into the last scenario for the upcoming BOB scenario?

  Request that the targets / objectives be kept to 1 or maybe 2 each side to allow the CIC's to plan larger more complex operations.

[Squire]

Well I will keep it so it does not get too spread out based on the player #s. Anyways I have not yet finished the objectives. I will keep your comments in mind. 

[Viper61]

Appreciate you taking time to review.  Just looked at the objective count and see we have the normal 3 target layout.  Providing feedback for improvements to be made.   

These 3 target set ups just aren't that fun because:

    The CIC cant do much besides split up his forces into 3 small groups and tell them to go for it
    Reinforcing targets is challenging as leaves the other open - cant shift forces
    CIC doesn't have enough resources to put out a robust scouting screen - so units hug the target sometimes for 59 minutes and wait to get attacked, 5-10 min battle and back to land
    layered defenses or attacks normally aren't possible - just send in the guys and see which squads are better
    Real Deception operations aren't possible - probes, radar attacks etc.

Basically 3 small battles going on in 3 spots until the target is destroyed or one side is dead.  This is nearly the same as any normal night in the MA.  And we the squads that plan will do that, but we cant if we don't have a set up that supports good planing.

The FSO community just doesn't have the numbers that it use to.  Gone are the 500-600 man nights.  Now a days were fielding about 175-225 from what Ive seen.  The setups should change to better account for the changes in personnel count.

Right Sizing the setups is needed. Nef got it right on the last one.

[Squire]

At this point I would not do more than 3 targets based on the player #s. The targets count always changes depending on current player #s. That said its a reasonable amount for 200 players. Frame 1 is Channel Battle that was smaller engagements so I went with 3 targets; 2 ports and a convoy.

[DH367th]

What you say we run the 1st frame then see where we are. 

[ImADot]

Am I reading the objectives correctly? The Allies are only defending (no attack missions). So it's not like regular setups where each side has to attack AND defend three targets.

[Nefarious]

With the numbers from last month, three targets should put about 33-/+ vs 33-/+ per objective, even with the very slight numbers advantage the Axis have to field bombers in a required amount so that will play a factor in the frames, IMO.

[Squire]

Am I reading the objectives correctly? The Allies are only defending (no attack missions).

Correct.

[Viper61]

Alrighty then,  Frame 01 complete, ALLIES wiped out in less than 60 minutes.  To me it was easy to see about to happen.

Not sure how to make my request any different here.  I get the scenario setup and following the historical unfolding of the battle.  Don't care about that at all.  I just would like to participate in a large fair fight from a setup stand point.  3 targets doesn't do that.

My squad ran into 30 fighters give or take head on.  Then the bombers with escorts (not sure how many).  So about 40+ in the Strike Package.  Defending ALLIES 15 total.  Pretty easy to calculate how that would end.

Plane set great and fairly even, Pilot splits about even but AXIS heavy by 20 pilots at Frame 1 start.  Scenario setup not fun do to the amount of targets, please fix.  We should have 1 or maybe 2 at most.  If one target could be a cluster of close fields etc.

Also we need larger targets with more objects.  Ship targets blow, 2 bombs and they are gone.  STRATs are always the best, to large to distroy, invites second strikes, fun all night.
  <S>

[Viper61]

And one more thing.  The BOB Scenario use to be the best scenario setup.  What happened???

[Nefarious]

Just like in Frame 1 last month, the Allies launched with a pretty big difference in numbers against the Axis.

Frame 1 last month the Axis had a 14 pilot advantage, Frame 1 this month was 21 pilot advantage. In Frame 1 this month the Allies upped with only 2 more pilots than the very minimum, Axis had 12 more than the very minimum.

[SlipKnt]

From the Axis point of view, in points the ships are where the points are at.  Those of us attacking port had to risk 12 planes worth 15 points each for 2 hangers worth 25 points each. 

We were discovered and decimated over the channel.  In fact, Allied scouts were sitting just outside Axis radar.  I believe one of the OLDER special rules was that Allies couldn't cross the channel until T plus 60. 

Assuming Allies had the darbar, Allies were at an advantage the moment the fields were opened.  As soon as we went feet wet, we were jumped by 2 spits.  So we were fighting the entire time traveling N until our rendezvous escorts could join us.  They stripped the first two attempts at us but eventually, as the main defense left the port, traveled the 40 miles to us, we were devoured.  In my eyes, we were grossly defeated and we thought a big win for the Allies. 

My hats off to whoever planned the defense at P57.  Our He111s were way too slow to do anything.  And you caught us very early on our side of the channel.  I thought you guys planned, communicated, and executed the plan perfectly.

Personally, I wouldn't change anything regarding objectives.  From my selfish standpoint I do think there should be a no fly zone until T plus 60.  Or at least something to simulate the fact that radar picked up the incoming attack and the Allies scrambled to meet them.  Instead of hanging out just outside Axis DAR following darbar to pounce. 

   

[USCH]

Personally, I wouldn't change anything regarding objectives.  From my selfish standpoint I do think there should be a no fly zone until T plus 60.  Or at least something to simulate the fact that radar picked up the incoming attack and the Allies scrambled to meet them.  Instead of hanging out just outside Axis DAR following darbar to pounce. 

 

i would agree with this, i mean 2 spits hit the buffs as soon as the went feet wet, had the brought more it would have been death to all 111's before going 7 miles deep into the channel.

[BLBird]

Lets take a look at those Frame 1 numbers. Allies put up 91 pilots all in fighters. Axis put up 112. My look at the logs came up with 33 in HE-111s and 10 in JU-87s leaving 69 for fighters. So 91 v 69. Is it true that the allied CIC only assigned 15 out of 91 to protect one of the targets? Now if that target was a low value target like the port that kinda makes sense. My squad flew 12 HE-111s worth 180 points to kill 2 hangers of 50 points. All the allies had to do was shoot down 4 HE-111 to come out ahead on that deal. In fact we figured that the port was going to be a point bonanza for the allies that's why we didn't fly formations, the loss of points would have far outstripped any potential point gain. Let me know if I messed up those numbers, just counting off the logs and may have messed it up. By the way my entire squad of 12 HE-111 was wiped out at 30 mins after takeoff. 

[1Canukk]

Lets take a look at those Frame 1 numbers. Allies put up 91 pilots all in fighters. Axis put up 112. My look at the logs came up with 33 in HE-111s and 10 in JU-87s leaving 69 for fighters. So 91 v 69. Is it true that the allied CIC only assigned 15 out of 91 to protect one of the targets? Now if that target was a low value target like the port that kinda makes sense. My squad flew 12 HE-111s worth 180 points to kill 2 hangers of 50 points. All the allies had to do was shoot down 4 HE-111 to come out ahead on that deal. In fact we figured that the port was going to be a point bonanza for the allies that's why we didn't fly formations, the loss of points would have far outstripped any potential point gain. Let me know if I messed up those numbers, just counting off the logs and may have messed it up.