Author Topic: Wish list  (Read 3779 times)

Offline FLS

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2016, 03:20:01 PM »
The dive flap did not add noticeable drag according to Lockheed. I forget if it's in the pilot handbook or hanger flying notes.

The "combat" flap setting in some fighters like the P-51 is the first notch of flaps. The "maneuver" flap setting in the P-38 is halfway out which looks to be 3 notches of flaps in Aces High. The actual flap control could set any degree of flaps but that's not modeled.



Offline Randy1

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2016, 04:13:40 PM »
The dive flap did not add noticeable drag according to Lockheed. I forget if it's in the pilot handbook or hanger flying notes.

The "combat" flap setting in some fighters like the P-51 is the first notch of flaps. The "maneuver" flap setting in the P-38 is halfway out which looks to be 3 notches of flaps in Aces High. The actual flap control could set any degree of flaps but that's not modeled.

Fls is right on the first part about drag but wrong on the maneuvering flap setting..

 It is the first notch in AH which is 8 degrees of flaps per HiTech form a post some years back.  The eight degrees comes at about 50% of the extension mechanism travel.   At this point the Fowler flaps are at  full extension and have hit the guide stop.  Any further extension of the flap mechanism turns the flap down greatly increasing the drag.   The 8 degrees gives the most efficient lift increase.  As they say, most bang for your buck.

That is not to say anything after the first notch is all bad.  The slower you go the less drag comes into play.  A good way to look at drag is drag is proportional to the square of the velocity all other things being equal.  That is one reason your car gets worse gas mileage the faster you go in a big way.

Offline FLS

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2016, 04:17:45 PM »
Fls is right on the first part about drag but wrong on the maneuvering flap setting..

Let's not lose sight of the difference between disagreeing with you and being wrong.   :D

You haven't posted anything that shows the 50% maneuver setting is 8 degrees of flaps. I think the common usage of "half flaps" is accurate.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 04:20:33 PM by FLS »

Offline Dobs

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2016, 05:11:02 PM »
Well I can't see dropping 50% flaps in any aircraft as being a "maneuver setting"...as far as combat and maneuver flaps go...now you are just splitting hairs.

Just confused on why you wouldn't think slamming a piece of steel into the windstream would not cause drag?

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Offline FLS

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2016, 05:26:51 PM »
There is a wind tunnel test online, I don't have the link handy, of Fowler Flap testing on a P-38 wing model that finds the highest CLmax at 30 degrees flap extension.

The flap control "Maneuver" position was in the middle of the range of movement.

In Aces High the 3rd notch of flaps in the P38 has the handle in the middle and gives the highest CLmax.




Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2016, 06:23:30 PM »
Right now, in game, sticking 8" of metal into the slipstream adds no drag.  Us new guys joke on takeoff--"check dive recovery flaps on" when we take a 38L heavy for some JABO missions.  Because it doesn't hurt your performance, it only increases the speed at which you compress.

We've determined in another post that the lack of drag when the dive flaps are deployed are either a bug or intentional (possibly due to lack of data).  This topic has been debated throughout the years and never have we received any answer as to whether it's a bug or not.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,360029.0.html

Ignore the mudslinging posts in the linked thread, the other posts have the details.  In short, there should be some type of drag modeled, how much though is what is up for debate.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2016, 06:39:21 PM »
The dive flaps work properly when they are needed.  There is conflicting information on how they should work when they aren't needed.

Offline katanaso

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2016, 07:57:20 PM »
In Aces High the 3rd notch of flaps in the P38 has the handle in the middle and gives the highest CLmax.

Randy1, and any other guys in the 38:

This is key to note for our game.  Fly the 38 with this, and you'll find it turns like you want it to.  1 notch of flaps, like in the 51, does not have the same effect in the 38.
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Offline Dobs

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2016, 11:39:25 PM »
Just so everyone is clear on a maneuvering/combat flap setting on flaps....it is a "slap down" setting--one movement required-- to get a preset degree of flaps.  It doesn't matter where it "physically stops", it commands XX degrees of flaps. The difference in that and regular flap deployment is having to hold the flap lever in the open position to get a flap setting.  With a combat/maneuver setting you pull it to the detent and you are done.

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Offline FLS

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2016, 12:42:38 AM »
Well I can't see dropping 50% flaps in any aircraft as being a "maneuver setting"...

The P-38 Pilot manual describes the maneuver position as flaps half down. 

Offline katanaso

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2016, 08:05:46 AM »
Just so everyone is clear on a maneuvering/combat flap setting on flaps....it is a "slap down" setting--one movement required-- to get a preset degree of flaps.  It doesn't matter where it "physically stops", it commands XX degrees of flaps. The difference in that and regular flap deployment is having to hold the flap lever in the open position to get a flap setting.  With a combat/maneuver setting you pull it to the detent and you are done.

Agreed.  I think we're sacrificing that piece of realism for the sake of simplifying it across all plane platforms.
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Offline Dobs

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2016, 09:21:59 AM »
The P-38 Pilot manual describes the maneuver position as flaps half down.

And per the Lockheed P-38 Lightning Pilot Training Manual USAAF, here is the answer...I stand corrected:)

So maybe a single press to get us there?


« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 09:37:08 AM by Dobs »
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2016, 01:48:16 PM »
+1    Option to suppress control mode messages.   

Also using "modes" for two view sets, and have just started trying TIR.  I'm coming to the same conclusion -- it's nice for sight seeing, but not for dogfighting.  Although, I it does seem useful for de-acking, allowing easy survey of the field when the view is zoomed.  And, it gives me an excuse to wear my, "Wings Over Houston AW Con 1995" hat.   :D

Done, for next patch.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2016, 02:21:36 PM »
Dobs and P38s... please for the love, don try and get the P38 WarBirds Flight Model in here. A Zeke with K4 climb.  :rofl
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Offline fd ski

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Re: Wish list
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2016, 02:25:32 PM »