Curious about your take on the new radar on the clipboard map

[ROC]

Our first ever scenario in AH3 was not without its issues, every event has them, but it was still a great deal of fun.
Flying in the new version was just amazing.  Over 12 hours in flight, there were a couple of minor stutters in the graphics. One time it killed me off, but that was non game related and my AV was updating.  Forgot to disable it prior. 
The graphics were stunning, clouds were amazing, detail over all really made for a fantastic experience.

We also all saw a new feature.  The clipboard map doesn't just have Dot Dar any longer.  It shows the planes.  Now, on the clip board map we saw small fighter icons, large bomber icons, and which way they were going.  We could see bombers clustered or loose, fighters and the formations they were flying as they approached.

I wonder, was that just a bit too much?  We were positioning defenses and attacks based on what we could see on the clipboard.  Every time the Allies got over the dar height, we saw what it was, not just where they were.  We saw them turned away, we saw them coming.  It verged on too easy.

What were your observations on the radar?

[Devil 505]

The real time heading info was the biggest issue. Took much the guesswork out of defending. The icons mostly were a non-issue though, since the bombers were usually below 15K.

[LilMak]

I'm not a fan of dot dar in scenerios at all. At least not in flight. Darbar at maximum in my opinion.

[1ijac]

I think the dar bar only option would be to my liking.

[oboe]

Agreed.  I thought dot dar provided a bit too much info for a scenario setting.

[KCDitto]

Would of been nice that you had to be in that tower to see what is there.

[Chilli]

Without a clear command structure and constant updates from vox or channel, without dar information, you would have lost me for sure.  Very easy to lose contact with your group if you make any kind of maneuver to engage in combat.  I thought the above 15k rule was stealthy enough. 

My problem with most scenarios has been the wasted time wandering around looking for action.  This could be unhinged by making the bomber attacks somewhat more predictable. Follow me closely on this: I am tempted to say that bombers should almost be entirely drones/ AI and to allow late joiners to man the AI bombers.... (don't freak out)....  The best times had from scenarios has been from dogfight action either trying to fight through to get to bombers or defending them (PERIOD).

[Randy1]

Brooke made a post awhile back and noted the lack of tracking information greatly reduced engagements.  His point was without engagements it was boring in past events.

The Tunisia map seemed to have a good balance.

[Wiley]

I felt it was about right.  The instant heading information isn't that big of a deal.  It only saves you a few seconds of having to wait a radar tick to see which way the dot moves.

Instant bomber vs fighter information may be a bit much, but on the other hand how often did we see bombers above dot dar alt?  Three times?  Also, if you see 4 dots moving slowly toward a field, it's a fairly safe bet they're not fighters.

Wiley.

[puller]

Maybe the solution is to just delay it like has been done in the past...I don't think it is too much...

It speeds up combat to an extent...As has been said though, the last thing you want is to fly around with nothing to do...The typical engagements in this last scenario were right at 20mins into a hour...maybe a little longer...

20 mins is about the attention span of some people...Any longer than that of flying around aimlessly even though you know that combat is coming, is too much for some people...

This isn't FSO...the FSO squads understand as they fly around aimlessly for right at 55mins each Friday waiting on an attack...now that hasn't been the case the last few FSOs for us...anyway...but we have an understanding of patience before battle...that's not the case for trying to get people to sign up for these scenarios...

These people want combat...and they want it now...majority of people you ask why they don't fly scenarios is always lack of combat..."well the last scenario I flew in I flew for 2 hours and didn't see anything and @#$k that, I haven't tried one since"...that's what you always hear...now no one can ever say that about this last scenario...the 12 hour format plays perfectly to constant action and the ability for walkons to be in flight within a hour is great...

The 3 and 4 hour frames of a traditional scenario you have 1 or 2 lives...sometimes more...but for someone to walk on during the frame is verboten...with the 12 hour format you get anyone and everyone that wants to join...fly as little or as much as they want...

We want more people to fly in these things with us...the radar helps us in that regard...if you want realism, PM me here on the boards or find me in the game and we will get you into FSO...You'll get realism 3 Fridays out of every month...If you want more people to show up for the scenarios, we better start making concessions of realism to easy playability or it will be the 60 of us hardcore scenario junkies playing with ourselves...  

[Wiley]

The thing with the launch windows is, in a mostly organized event you generally don't want your people upping in ones and twos.  The squad should be traveling as a unit, not strung out over a sector because people came up 15-20 minutes later.  It bites when you get tagged at 6 minutes after the hour, that is true.

Managing peoples' expectations with more information might be a good idea.  If it were me, I would've been announcing "5 minute launch window opening in 15 minutes in SEA1.  Hurry to get there or your next opportunity won't be for another hour!" in the MA at 15 to the hour every hour.

Wiley.

[Brooke]

My opinion.

For scenarios, I mostly like it to be sector counters only.

However, as a motivation to encourage lower-alt combat in battles where the action was almost always lower (like Tunisia and Dnieper), dot radar can be used above a certain altitude.  So, you can fly up there, but you have a slight penalty of being very well seen, encouraging perhaps more flying below the dot dar limit.

That was the motivation, anyway.  It worked as intended in Dnieper.  Here, fighters tended to want to stay higher and showed more often on dot dar.

[Chilli]

The thing with the launch windows is, in a mostly organized event you generally don't want your people upping in ones and twos.  The squad should be traveling as a unit, not strung out over a sector because people came up 15-20 minutes later.  It bites when you get tagged at 6 minutes after the hour, that is true.

{snip}
Wiley.

Not mentioned here, but I believe it was handled perfectly:  Late arrivals could possibly gain intel before assigned to a country.  When I logged in,  I didn't look at the clipboard map at all, so I can't say if I was forced to a country with no dar information or chat.  I announced my arrival on channel 1 and then read arena message.  I got instructions and was on the right country and in the air in record time 

Open fields once an hour to encourage late participation is KEY to running this type of scenario.    Also, gives someone the opportunity to take a break and come back when the time is near.  So get sniped in 6 mins. no problem go practice in another arena for 45 mins. 

Flying solo to join the action, does not ONLY occur when new players log in.  As I said in previous post, all you need to do is chase an enemy for a minute, or dive to avoid awarding an easy kill.  You will find yourself  lost.  Without visual cues on friendlies, including direction, altitude and type you most likely will only see any of your "squadmates" again until you land or the other less fortunate option.

Following up on squads, they usually stick to their mission which is to get to their target.   Would an entire squad abandon one or two stragglers or would they all rally at a point to maintain integrity and strength for their target objective?  I like the way that the logs report squad statistics.  Beyond that, there is not as much to form the glue which would hold a squad together realistically.   It would be nice if squad highlight would have differing dar dot/icon capabilities so that they would "always" show location.

[Wiley]

Following up on squads, they usually stick to their mission which is to get to their target.   Would an entire squad abandon one or two stragglers or would they all rally at a point to maintain integrity and strength for their target objective?  I like the way that the logs report squad statistics.  Beyond that, there is not as much to form the glue which would hold a squad together realistically.   It would be nice if squad highlight would have differing dar dot/icon capabilities so that they would "always" show location.

 

Any event I've been involved with, getting separated was never that much of a big deal as the squad's general direction is known, or if things are fluid, location is just a quick text away.

It's not about stopping to wait for the couple of stragglers, it's about the stragglers having the info to know where to go and get there as best they can.  If too much of the squad is broken up, then a rally is generally a good idea.

Communication is key, the main thing is to keep nonessential stuff like position requests over text rather than vox.

Wiley.

[Dantoo]

I'd make dot dar visible from the tower only.  Bar Dar not so worried about.

Adds another layer of fun and gives downed squaddies a job of some importance.  Also allows for a side to gamble a player or two and set up a ground organisation.

Don't like the ability to distinguish between bombers and fighters in any arena.  It takes quite a skilled operator using raw radar in R/L.  Not needed in AH.