What happened in frame 2 of ToG is never going to happen again.

[Squire]

This has to have its own thread and I am opting to post it here so that everybody can read it.

In frame 2 of ToG 7 G4Ms and 2 D3As were deliberately landed within 30 minutes of takeoff with no intention of participating in the fighting. This was ordered directly by the Axis frame CiC.

CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that all initial attack aircraft reach their targets by T+60

Strike planes must reach their assigned targets within the first hour. That's it. I am not going to play lawyer word games, add silly clarifications or special rules.

The 9 players ordered to land their planes had no fun Friday did they? The two dozen or so Allied CAP pilots had no fun Friday waiting for bombers that did not show. Thats something like 10 percent of the players right off the bat having a crappy night over this.

If you don't want to fight then why show up? really?

We need CiCs that are here to be competative, have fun, and follow the rules...and yes...have some sense or RESPONSIBILITY for the frames they lead.

That's it.

[Devil 505]

Most excellent, Squire.

 

[Scca]

 

[AKKuya]

Strike planes must reach their assigned targets within the first hour. That's it. I am not going to play lawyer word games, add silly clarifications or special rules.
 

For some reason the Special Events website isn't allowing me to read the FSO Rules.  I remember that credible force is used for before T + 60.

That does not mean ALL STRIKE PLANES have to reach target before T + 60. If 15 JABO fighters drop before T + 60 that satisfies the T + 60 rule. Level bombers can attack anytime after for follow up on THEIR 1st strike.

If the CM staff is changing the FSO Rules to state that all strike aircraft must hit target before T + 60, then I will be the first one to QUIT FSO!!!  Why should players get into some of the most defenseless bombers and have the opposing side just tool around and wait for the easy pounce?

What happened for Frame 2 won't be repeated I hope. Please don't tie the hands of the CIC with a statement of a FSO Rule that isn't in conjunction with the other FSO Rule. 10 + years of FSO has created the Rules for various reasons.

I enjoy the strategy of FSO. Not like any frontal infantry attack from WW1 back to antiquity where the largest standing army left is victorious. I enjoyed being CIC to create deceptive tactics into the Orders with compliance to the FSO Rules.

[Kanth]

They are here:

http://www.ahevents.net/index.php/fso-rules

If for some reason it's not letting you read it, please let me know what error you are getting and I will look into it.

For some reason the Special Events website isn't allowing me to read the FSO Rules. 

[AKKuya]

That link worked thanks.

[Becinhu]

For some reason the Special Events website isn't allowing me to read the FSO Rules.  I remember that credible force is used for before T + 60.

That does not mean ALL STRIKE PLANES have to reach target before T + 60. If 15 JABO fighters drop before T + 60 that satisfies the T + 60 rule. Level bombers can attack anytime after for follow up on THEIR 1st strike.

If the CM staff is changing the FSO Rules to state that all strike aircraft must hit target before T + 60, then I will be the first one to QUIT FSO!!!  Why should players get into some of the most defenseless bombers and have the opposing side just tool around and wait for the easy pounce?

What happened for Frame 2 won't be repeated I hope. Please don't tie the hands of the CIC with a statement of a FSO Rule that isn't in conjunction with the other FSO Rule. 10 + years of FSO has created the Rules for various reasons.

I enjoy the strategy of FSO. Not like any frontal infantry attack from WW1 back to antiquity where the largest standing army left is victorious. I enjoyed being CIC to create deceptive tactics into the Orders with compliance to the FSO Rules.

"Target must be hit before +60 with squadron strength force"

So a squad of 4-6 members can hit a target before T+60 as I read the rules. Doesn't say all strike fighters must hit target by then. However last frame it appears that AXIS simply ignored one target completely to save points. As an Axis pilot this month it embarrasses me that it happened.

I have flown FSO for a long time and have had more than my share of suicide missions. But I have never once tried to avoid hitting my target so I could land. I have been bounced and never made it to target but I sure as heck tried to get there. I have also flown CAP and never seen a red guy, which makes for a boring night. FSO is the main reason I came back to the game after several years off.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Devil 505]

That does not mean ALL STRIKE PLANES have to reach target before T + 60. If 15 JABO fighters drop before T + 60 that satisfies the T + 60 rule. Level bombers can attack anytime after for follow up on THEIR 1st strike.

I believe this was amended earlier this year to mean that all attacks must be made by T+60.

[AKKuya]

From the FSO Rule

Targets will be attacked and defended by a credible force. Unless stated otherwise this will be a minimum of 12 players assigned per target. This can consist of a single squad or multiple squads

If in any doubt that your orders are within the rules of FSO contact the Admin CM. After initial attacks are made in compliance with the T+60 rule follow up attacks are allowed and may be conducted

 Any targets not initially attacked or defended in the first hour may result in a penalty of over all awarded points or the loss of objectives. This is to insure all squads will see action within the first hour. See above "T+60" rule.

Squire's OP is stated that ALL initial strike aircraft reach their targets before T + 60.

I don't see that in above FSO Rules clearly.  2nd Rule above states that 2nd strikes are allowed after T + 60. 2nd strikes are not a FSO Rule mandatory just an option.

The way I understand the OP is that CICs are required to throw all the attack birds before T + 60 and what happens after is make it up as you go.  Just to ensure all players see some action.

That means CICs receiving reports that all targets have been hit by strike AC to satisfy credible force, they are required to send in rest of attack AC that launched at Fields Open to reach targets before T + 60.

If you want to call me an attorney for the Bomber Pilots Association, then I can live with it.

 

[captain1ma]

- Targets will be attacked and defended by a credible force. Unless stated otherwise this will be a minimum of 12 players assigned per target. This can consist of a single squad or multiple squads. 

 - All targets must be attacked within 60 minutes of the start of the frame. They must be attacked with explosive ordinance (rockets and bombs) by a full squadron. Feints and diversions prior to a larger strike force do not satisfy the requirements of this rule. Simply strafing a target with fighters does not satisfy the requirements of this rule. CIC's are expected to construct their orders in such a way that all initial attack aircraft reach their targets by T+60. Administrator CM's may request copies of orders to evaluate the observance of this rule.

[LilMak]

"In frame 2 of ToG 7 G4Ms and 2 D3As were deliberately landed within 30 minutes of takeoff with no intention of participating in the fighting. This was ordered directly by the Axis frame CiC."

That's total garbage. I would've ignored that order. We all know the spirit of the rules and anyone who's done this more than a couple months has been sent on a suicide mission. It's up to all of us to have integrity. That integrity needs to kick in when someone intentionally tries to game the system.

[Vulcan]

Does anyone really care about who wins FSO frames?

I play it because it's great fun. I love the surprise of the orders each week. It more than often throws down a challenge to take up something I usually don't fly and do good with it. I fell in love with the Yak-9T after flying it in an FSO!

IMHO events like FSO is what AH is all about, the MA is just the practice arena.

<S> to the team that brings us this enjoyment!

[68ZooM]

I can tell you first hand I've been on several one way missions... JU88's didn't even get an egg off before all 3 of my airplanes were blown up, same with B25's got lucky 1 made it home.
 Face it we all get dealt with crappy air frames now and then in the FSO all you can do it's do your best and try to get your assignment done you don't wuss out and land your airplane after 30 minutes because you don't want to get shot down..
There seems to be too many prima donnas in here that if they don't get their ride of choice then they don't want to participate properly. I work 70-hour 5 day work weeks and I look forward to Flying a FSO and look forward to combat not just flying around for an hour and a half looking for combat.

[RSLQK186]

Viper has used the wording of the rules to his side's advantage before. He has done well many times as CiC  as far as understanding what he can and cannot do. Case in point:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,302674.msg3886077.html#msg3886077

But the part in red is what I believe expresses the spirit and intent concerning the T+60 rules:
 Any targets not initially attacked or defended in the first hour may result in a penalty of over all awarded points or the loss of objectives. This is to insure all squads will see action within the first hour. See above "T+60" rule.

The two points seem to contradict each other, but in the first instance the bombers pressed the attack and in the second case they did not.

[ghostdancer]

Guys, a clarification here. Must be attacked doesn't mean successfully attacked.

Basically you must assign a credible force to an attack a target by T+60. You are supposed to supply the admin CM (CC him) your plans. So that he can evaluate if a credible attack was planned. We all know that things can happen and have in prior FSO events. Such as you attack force running into an enemy attack force and being gutted. Or a running battle from T+30 to to past T+60 as an attack force battles its way to target. Or being discovered very early and the defenders vectoring in planes other than the field defenders wiping out that attack force but leaving those assigned to a field to orbit the field in boredom they are defending.

When these situations arise (and they have many times over the years). The admin CM must be able to reference the original orders per a side to start the discovery of what happened. Was a credible attack planned but wiped out? Did the assign squad or squads assigned not show up or were under manned (in one instance we had a squad go roque several years past)? Was a credible attack not planned at all? Was a credible attack planned but then in event scrapped?

All of this comes down to the admin CM having to discovery to figure out what happened and why to see if it was an aberration or not. To determine if a credible attack force of at least 12 assigned (we understand that sometimes squads suddenly have low turnout) to a hit a target with a reasonable plan before T+60. If your plan is to hit the base by T+59 you run a serious risk of a penalty since basically you are gambling everything will go right for you during combat. If the CiC had 12 assigned and 6 show up for the event but the squad(s) assign showed up in full strength when assigned fighters but not in bombers then that squad could face possible actions.