Author Topic: WW lll  (Read 5449 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #90 on: April 28, 2017, 10:27:41 AM »
Can't say as I blame her!  Did you read the label? "Keep under refrigeration".

I mean, if I told my Wife she was going to have to move the refrigerator off the top of it every time we want sauerkraut, I am pretty sure she would balk at buying it as well!

Besides, I am pretty sure that bucket is not strong enough to support a fully loaded refrigerator.

 :rofl :aok


Offline Rich46yo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2017, 07:24:10 PM »
I was in USAF during the height of The Cold War. If you think this is bad you should have seen then. Both us and the Soviet with over 10,000 strategic thermo nuclear weapons apiece each pointed at each other, with most of them on trip wire alert. Base after base with Buff's on hot pads, roped off under extreme security, the pilots in nearby standby houses able to be in the air in 15 mins.

We had three separate ICBM classes on alert at one time. One, a Titan 2 at a base I was stationed at, blew up in its silo and we came within a 25 cent electric circuit of a 9 megaton warhead annihilating Arkansas. And I'm not even including medium range/theater nukes. THEN, at the height of it, we stared down the Reds and put GLCMs and Pershing-lls in Europe. Ballistic missile submarines prowled the oceans, just one of our could take out every major population center of any country in the world. And we had 18 of them.

This Russian poking and stumbling around with their Bear bombers and whatever else was almost daily. We considered it nothing but practice, and remember, the fighters we sent out to check them out were also armed with Genie nuclear ATA missiles. I spent 18 mos in the Middle East and terrorists were murdering us back then also. A friend of mine was thrown off a 4'th floor balcony by fundamentalists just for marrying a girl of a different religion. I did TDYs in secret bases where the NSA monitored Soviet missile fields across the Black Sea. Unlike today we were always a split second from Armageddon and we weren't doing much talking about it.

So today it still goes on but we pulled back our nuclear postures and we have far less weapons on alert tho reduction talks are threatened by distrust and our need to have at least some ABM capability to protect us from rouge nations. But dont forget a certain amount of ABMs was agreed to under the SALT talks, I think about 64, and the Russians have always had them active in a ring around Moscow. They still do and are even going to replace them with newer ones.

Yes Korea is a worry some thing and unfortunately were going to have to eventually draw the line. With avoiding Politics History has shown us when one person holds all the power and he has destructive weapons its a bad thing, tho its far worse in Asia then here. I have a son at that same MidEast base I was at, still basically fighting the war I fought. Its worse now but we fought terror then too, and you can add all kinds of Marxist student groups, the Red brigades, and all kinds of Soviet funded Loony birds back then as well.

We are at risk of a major regional conflict now but I still say it was a far scarier world in 1978. History has shown us the only chance we have of avoiding war is thru strength and resolve and each and every time we have forgotten that we have ended up in a conflict. I just dont see WW3 right now but we are going to have to pay a price to prevent it. Our allies will have to pay too.


Frankly, if WWIII and nuclear holocaust happens a lot of us will be in the service by the time it goes nuclear. Many of us will meet that day on foreign and unfriendly ground, far from home with little hope of getting back, should it ever come to pass.

Granted I'm 22 and single without children, but I'll be counting more on my rifle and the guys in my unit than a bunker I probably won't be able to use.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Oldman731

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2017, 09:33:13 PM »
We are at risk of a major regional conflict now but I still say it was a far scarier world in 1978.


Eh.  1962 was no picnic, first time I was ever really frightened by the notion of World Death.  When you think about it, we had two, maybe three full decades of that.  But we all knew that adults were in charge.  There were no crazies back then.  That's no longer the case.  Now:  North Korea?  Pakistan?  Iran? 

I have never known one military person who thought that a nuclear war could be contained, once begun.  Henry Kissinger be damned.

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Offline Brooke

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #93 on: May 05, 2017, 12:25:02 PM »
During the Cuban Missile Crisis, a Soviet sub (B-59) very nearly launched a nuclear torpedo against our task group down there.

It came down to three officers, two agreeing (one being the captain who ordered the launch) and one (the political officer) refusing.

It is a fascinating story, told in Red November, by Reed (a great book), and also some details here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_B-59

Here is part of a documentary on the subject:
https://youtu.be/4VPY2SgyG5w?t=2590


Offline zack1234

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #94 on: May 05, 2017, 03:24:32 PM »
Has it started yet?

Guess not then
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #95 on: May 05, 2017, 03:39:58 PM »
I'm not old enough to remember Cuba, tho I do remember JFK getting killed. The scary thing about Cuba in retrospect is that junior commanders had so much leniency in the nuclear chain of command. And it wasn't just the Russians. It was like procedures and command structures hadnt caught up with the technology yet, as if nobody knew what the heck to do.

But the one single thing that stopped catastrophe in that crisis, I believe, is we had them out gunned by far. I mean a lot. I forget the exact number but we had a huge lead in deliverable war heads. Luckily we got out of that one and both countries installed some safety procedures and better communication. I'm kind of glad I dont remember it, reading about is is scary enough.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #96 on: May 05, 2017, 03:55:20 PM »
But the one single thing that stopped catastrophe in that crisis, I believe, is we had them out gunned by far. I mean a lot. I forget the exact number but we had a huge lead in deliverable war heads.

I think it's a rather moot point if the other side has enough weapons to destroy the world twice over and we have ten times that.

Offline Brooke

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #97 on: May 05, 2017, 04:02:55 PM »
There were several reasons for so many during the cold war.  One of the main ones was to have enough left after absorbing a first strike to still have a very high probability of annihilating the Soviet Union.

Offline Arlo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #98 on: May 05, 2017, 08:43:12 PM »
There were several reasons for so many during the cold war.  One of the main ones was to have enough left after absorbing a first strike to still have a very high probability of annihilating the Soviet Union.

That would indeed be a reason. Defense industry spending (and profit) would be another. Puts a whole new spin on 'overkill.'



Offline Rich46yo

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #99 on: May 05, 2017, 08:48:25 PM »
I think it's a rather moot point if the other side has enough weapons to destroy the world twice over and we have ten times that.

They didnt look at it that way in 1962 when there were far fewer deliverable warheads.

The way the Soviets looked at it we had 203 ICBMs that could hit them while they only had 36 that could hit us. We had 1,300 bombers capable of reaching them and they had 138 capable of reaching us. We had 8 SSBNs each with 16 Polaris missiles and a range of 1,500 nm. They had about the same number of Loud Hotel class each with 3 launchers with missiles that had a much shorter range. We even had them on IRBMs with 50 Jupiters deployed in Europe compared to what they had up and running in Cuba.

At the time nuclear war was considered inevitable but if your a Red looking to start a fight those numbers didnt add up very well. The imbalance was what lead Khrushchev to try and sneak those IRBMs into Cuba in the first place. If your looking for a good book on all this get "Command and Control" by Eric Schlosser. In it he covers the Broken Arrow at Little Rock AFB in 1980 I mentioned earlier but he goes far more into detail over the entire arms race and all the accidents and incidents that almost led to war.

At the time I was assigned to SAC so I didnt go out to the sight of the Titan-ll mishap. We knew something was happening out there but USAF put a lid on it and told everyone there was no chance the weapon could have gone off, which was BS.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Flench

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #100 on: May 05, 2017, 09:35:51 PM »
I remember back in like 1965 father's was a brick and stone masson and worked on new homes and so on and he was  building quite a few bunkers in the back yards back then . Growing up I had a friend that his father had one in the back yard and it was party city to us , lol ..
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #101 on: May 05, 2017, 09:51:50 PM »
There were several reasons for so many during the cold war.  One of the main ones was to have enough left after absorbing a first strike to still have a very high probability of annihilating the Soviet Union.


They took those analyses to ridiculous levels - nuke the other guy's airfields, send in your bombers, hope no one uses ICBMs.  If they do, nuke the silos but not the cities, see if the other guy quits.  Use half your force, use all of your force, keep some back for when it's all over so you can rule the smoking world...it works in chess, but in the real world, when your kids have just been incinerated, I doubt anyone would have that sort of restraint.

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Offline ghi

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #102 on: May 05, 2017, 10:59:01 PM »
That would indeed be a reason. Defense industry spending (and profit) would be another. Puts a whole new spin on 'overkill.'



Good stuff ! I watched it before , makes sense, but i believe is something more hideous luring them with material things.
Since November last year it's scary watching  American people punishing the youngsters( snowflakes)  for not supporting their choice; from what i read the mass rejection of certain candidate by younger generation was unprecedented .
Consciousness  is not born with us, won't die with us, but rather moves on,  not a product of the brain. Mature humans are acting according to life experience, (illusion of understanding nature and life) rational thinking in taking decisions  ignoring the low frequency whispers of destiny ; In animals and younger creature the timeless consciousnesses tends preserve and warn the body host, is more attached to material body goes back and forward in time and warns the soul via instincts and premonitions; instinct and intuition  is more powerful than rational thinking not to be ignored;, only time will tell.

Offline ghi

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« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 11:30:47 PM by ghi »

Offline icepac

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Re: WW lll
« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2017, 09:06:31 AM »
A big event that causes people to abandon thier posts at nuclear power plants or causes damage to the capacity for cooling the reactors is what would make the world unable to sustain life.

All the world needs is 10 reactors on the east coast to go "smoking hole" and life would likely be impossible anywhere in the world you may hide.

Let's say 10 reactors are successfully "SCRAM" because they lost the power grid to them.

The decay heat still requires millions of gallons per day of flow through the reactors and spent fuel poinds.

The pumps require enormous amounts of power to the point that it's likely that on site generators would have trouble keeping fueled or being maintained to run constantly.

Even nuke plants that have been shut down for years require millions of gallons of flow.

If you've studied Fukushima, you realize that, in spite of the 9.0 magnitude earthquake, they got extremely lucky in being able to restore power to the site relatively quickly making the possible damage about 1/10000th of what it could have been.

The only way for the world to survive a large destabilization event is for all the worlds nuke plants to have "convective cooling loops" capable of dealing with the decay heat from a recently scram reactor which should lessen and possibly eliminate the need for massive amounts of on site power available for pumping.

As time passes, the cooling needs lessen but still require humans on site to maintain the ability to cool (for years) before the reactors are dismantled and the fuel is stored in dry casks.

When the "tough" get going.....the going gets tougher............the "tough" being morons who decide that "there's no law......let's raid walmart for weapons".

These people will tip a recoverable event into full blown disaster that may prompt people to abandon very important posts at places such as nuclear powerplants.

Once a few go up, the possibility of snowballing increases exponentially as people question why they should remain at their posts at an undamaged plant as they are absorbing doses from a nearby plant that has gone up.

Right now, the world's biggest threat to sustaining life is that we don't have enough cooling capacity that doesn't rely on an intact power grid.

This can be rectified and the cost of billions of dollars.........but it is possible to achieve.

How much money is the ability to sustain life on earth worth?


« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 09:21:50 AM by icepac »