Author Topic: Allied Frame 3  (Read 1773 times)

Offline Nefarious

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Allied Frame 3
« on: April 22, 2017, 12:59:36 AM »


I don't think I have ever seen such a discrepancy between Allied and Axis frame numbers in FSO.

I'm not even mad Axis, that's amazing.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline swareiam

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 06:36:32 AM »
Agreed, that was a complete blow out.
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Offline j500ss

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 08:08:21 AM »
I would love to hear some feedback as to what went on around A110 and A112 from an allied fighter jock perspective.  I looked at only the buff squads numbers last night when the logs came out and personally I thought they did well, better than I expected to be honest.

Offline DmdJJ

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 09:17:29 AM »
I would love to hear some feedback as to what went on around A110 and A112 from an allied fighter jock perspective.
My perspective from the Allied side.
Fly around at 25k taunting all the 109's for about 15 minutes. :neener: One of the 109's says something about your mother. :devil Spits say, oh no you didn't. :mad: Spits go after the 109's. :airplane: 109's dive for the deck. :bolt: Fight ensues over 109's base and in their ack. :joystick: 1 billion .303 rounds fired, :x and grass around 109's base dies from lead poisoning. :uhoh Ack and 109's shoot down all the Spits and Bostons. :confused: 109's land, fire up the grill, and have some bratwurst washed down with good German beer.  :cheers:
DmdJJ   
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 10:57:02 AM »
My perspective from the Allied side.
Fly around at 25k taunting all the 109's for about 15 minutes. :neener: One of the 109's says something about your mother. :devil Spits say, oh no you didn't. :mad: Spits go after the 109's. :airplane: 109's dive for the deck. :bolt: Fight ensues over 109's base and in their ack. :joystick: 1 billion .303 rounds fired, :x and grass around 109's base dies from lead poisoning. :uhoh Ack and 109's shoot down all the Spits and Bostons. :confused: 109's land, fire up the grill, and have some bratwurst washed down with good German beer.  :cheers:

109s ran away from your spits? 
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Offline cav58d

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 11:09:12 AM »
I think a major issue was the Bostons have no defensive capability.    Yes, technically they have a rear mounted pea shooter, but it's 100% worthless. 

I've been trying to think what could be done to balance this frame in the future and i'm short on answers.  Altitude cap?  I don't think that would be historically accurate.  Maybe the Axis should have a delayed launched based on time or a spotter making a positive ID on allied aircraft?  If not a delayed launch, maybe what was previously said could be used as guidance for when Axis could cross a certain sector?

I don't know....?  It was definitely fun, just trying to see if anything else can be done when we run this frame again in future.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 11:52:50 AM by cav58d »
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Offline KCDitto

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 11:10:18 AM »
ACK Killed all the spits and Boston's?  Really?
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Offline BFOOT1

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 11:24:46 AM »
I truthfully cannot explain myself what happened Frame Three. I've played with the scoring a little bit and I've actually found a really good balance in the score in which had I done this prior, the axis won Frame One, and allies frame Two. Regarding Frame Three, I do not know what in the world happened.
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Offline DmdJJ

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2017, 12:16:36 PM »
ACK Killed all the spits and Boston's?  Really?
Ack and 109's shoot down all the Spits and Bostons.
The allied plane set was basically useless against the axis plane set. Spit I couldn't kill a gnat with the .303's, and the Spit V has too small a clip to be effective.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2017, 12:26:21 PM »
I think the Allied plans were a major cause of the disparity. I see 2 decisions made by the Allies that played into the hands of the Axis.

1.Minimal use of the Hurricane 2C.

I really wonder why the CiC's in all frames did not utilize the Hurricanes more. It seems to me that the huge increase in lethality makes up for the speed difference with the Spit 1. The 109's had very little to fear form the Spit 1. If the Allies used more Hurricanes, the Axis would have suffered many more losses. The lack of that knock-out punch allowed the Axis to prolong fights, gain a numerical advantage, and divert even more assets to the location of fights.

2. Attacking all 3 targets.

This is not to say the Allied plan last night was not crafty, because it was. But when given the option to only attack two of the three targets, why not exploit the fact that the Axis must be set up to protect all three. It should have been very clear that local numerical superiority could have been achieved by only attacking two targets and hanging the third groups of defenders out to dry.

Bfoot designed this event to give more flexibility to the attacking CiC's as that has been a common complaint by the armchair generals that think FSO should be more like Scenarios and less like chess.

If the decision was made to attack all three targets was made thinking it was a winning strategy then it was a major blunder.

But if it was made with the intent of upholding the spirit of FSO and ensuring that all players saw action, then you have my deepest respect.  :salute

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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2017, 12:32:05 PM »
I don't think I have ever seen such a discrepancy between Allied and Axis frame numbers in FSO.

Frame 1 of "Air Battles Before Bodenplatte" from May 2016 was nearly as lop-sided

Allied kills: 100
Axis kills: 26
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Offline APDrone

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2017, 12:42:53 PM »
. Regarding Frame Three, I do not know what in the world happened.

1. The Spit 1 and Boston #$!# suck.. if they encounter enemy aircraft.
2.  A lot of people were in Spit 1s and Bostons.

Seriously, aside from the Battle of Britain event, I think the one side defends / other side attacks  setup is a terrible, terrible idea.   Too easy for the defenders to sit back and feed at their leisure. Especially when equipped with aircraft that can choose what fight they want.

There should be equal targets to defend and attack for each side.  With a few exceptions.

And please, for the love of God, CiCs.. take a few minutes to assign  squads something different from what they were assigned the previous frame.  I've watched the squad I'm in fly 3 consecutive frames of 109s.. then 3 consecutive frames of spitfires ( with the exception of 4 Boston volunteers in frame 1 ) the last 6 frames.

That's wrong.   
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Offline oakranger

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2017, 12:46:57 PM »
CiC on allies did not utilized the Boston base off what we had to contain with.  Boston would have bed been used NOE then pop up to 4K while spits stay CAP.
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Offline Scca

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2017, 02:35:54 PM »
109s ran away from your spits?

Here is a quote from the frame 2 scores thread
Let me guess how frame 3 is going to work...

109's climb to 30k and ignore massive group of spits below.  Loiter, loiter, loiter at high altitude until Boston's are spotted and then attack.  Axis wins 450 to 300  :aok

It basically went like that, but worse for the allies
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Offline snakeplissken

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Re: Allied Frame 3
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2017, 03:43:43 PM »
The allied plane set was basically useless against the axis plane set. Spit I couldn't kill a gnat with the .303's, and the Spit V has too small a clip to be effective.

If that were true you would be speaking German right now!
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