Windows 10 Creators Edition

[Pudgie]

Creators Update busted my install of Office 2013 - it actually uninstalled it. WTH.  For my son's computer, it busted his soundblaster X-FI soundcard - mic wouldn't recognise anymore no matter what I did. It's as if it made it obsolete. Nice move micronuts.

WTFH Micro$oft. WTFH.

Yeah, with the advent of the 1607 Update to catch up my Win 10 Home install, it removed the new AMD Ryzen "Balanced Power Plan" that I had installed prior to this update and now it will not allow me to reinstall it.......this plan was specifically written for use w\ Win 10....as are AMD Ryzen CPU's.

Very interesting.................. .

Not a biggie as I can just go into any of the "standard" power plans and set up most of this on my own......but geesh, what's up w\ this?

Checked the Windows 10 registry\power plans to see if MS 1607 update reset the changed attributes under the power plan class ID that exposes the CPU core parking setting in all the Windows power plans.......it didn't mess w\ this 1, so good for that.......at this time.

Waiting to see what this latest Creators update is gonna do....................

Been missing out on all the fun until now.................

 

 

[Pudgie]

Well I just jumped off the pier cause I just couldn't resist....................... ...

Just ran the latest Windows 10 Creator's Update Edition on my new AMD Ryzen Win 10 Home box.......................... ....

So far, I have to say that it isn't bad at all..........at this time,
I did go back thru all Settings & "turned off" as much of the privacy stuff as it'll allow you to turn off in as many of the areas where you can...........was pleasantly surprised to see that the Creators update didn't change any of the settings that I had turned off in the 1607 Anniversary update so that was a good thing.

Wish I could exercise a little more control over this OS but so far all has been going very well..............knock on wood...........

More to come...................

 

[Pudgie]

Ok, I just got done testing the new Game Mode in the Win 10 Creators Edition Update w\ AHIII....................

1.) It does work..........verified by running the game w\ Game Mode on vs off w\o me enabling CPU affinity (CPU priority setting of High would not affect this.....only enhance it by increasing the CPU core priority % slice for the AHIII game threads to be assigned over the other processes w\ a lower priority rank....meaning the only other process running w\ the same priority rank is the OS itself. All other process threads will get a smaller % of CPU core processing time assigned. This helps AHIII to run much better--read smoother here, not necessarily faster--than it would at it's default priority rank of "Normal") then using RTSS\HWINFO overlay to monitor CPU core usage % & CPU core clock speeds across all 8 physical CPU cores (have SMT Mode disabled in UEFI).
2.) It shows to help Win 10 schedulers make better thread allocation choices to optimize this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core CPU when it is enabled for AHIII.

With Game Mode off:
Game threads are consistently scheduled as per the old standard token ring method as used within a SMP designed architecture CPU........Core0 getting the majority of threads assigned w\ Core1 getting most of the spillover w\ the rest of the cores getting used for mostly context switches w\ the 1st CCX module (CPU Core 0, 1, 2, 3) getting most of the threads assigned w\ very, very few threads crossing to the 2nd CCX module (CPU Core 4, 5, 6, 7) so this 2nd CCX module is for the most part not really being used.........roughly 1\2 of the total potential of the CPU is not being taken advantage of. SMT being enabled will only make this situation worse, not better.

With Game Mode on:
Game threads are mostly split consistently between the 2 CCX modules w\ approx 53% going to CPU Core 0 in the 1st CCX module, approx 37% going to CPU Core 4 in 2nd CCX module then the rest of the CPU cores within each CCX module being used to handle any spillover or context switching between CPU cores within each CCX module, again showing very, very few threads crossing between the 2 CCX modules so this is making the attempt to spread out the entire CPU load across the 2 CCX modules in a somewhat even distribution instead of just 1 CCX module........which will make for better utilization of this CPU's full potential.....as long as the Infinity Fabric interconnect can adequately handle the data traffic so both CCX's can take full advantage of the massive shared L3 caches across Infinity Fabric interconnect to system mem cache. In some ways this behavior resembles what I've read up as to how a CPU designed on a NUMA architecture would be used by an OS that can recognize it.......such as Windows 7\8\8.1\10.......by seeing these CCX modules as separate CPU "nodes" within the CPU die thus assigning game\OS\drivers\etc threads w\ a higher priority rank\shorter time slice to the 1st CCX "node" for faster execution then any lower ranking game\OS\drivers\etc threads w\ a lower priority rank\longer time slice getting assigned to the 2nd CCX "node" for slower execution then all finished data is sent to the large shared L3 cache for transmission to system cache\devices when called for. This process has the tendency to reduce the appearance\occurance of frequent potential CPU core context switching\bus contention across the CPU cores within each CCX module to the shared L3 cache mem within each CCX module speeding up overall CPU performance over a SMP branch architecture CPU when multi-threaded apps are run on them. Then the only issue left is the ability for Infinity Fabric interconnect to bridge between the 2 L3 caches within each CCX module to system mem cache w\o inducing bus contention to transmit the finished data from the 2 CCX modules when called for (it is this section of the AMD Ryzen CPU's that is having the issues w\ mem modules compatibility).

My 2 cents on this......................... .....

If I could physically assign the AHIII game threads myself on this Ryzen 7 CPU they would be evenly split across the 2 CCX modules in much the same fashion as Win 10's Game Mode is assisting Win 10 thread schedulers to do.

So I like this Game Mode for how I'm seeing it help Win 10 schedulers make better use of this AMD Ryzen 7 CPU to it's strengths.

Back to more testing.............err...pla ying.

 

[Mister Fork]

Fallout from the Creator's Update for Win10 - it is confirmed that if you have an older Sound blaster, it will completely nerf the microphone even with updated drivers from Creative.  Nothing you can do will fix this issue. Mi¢ro$oft decided to re-write the way microphone interacts with DirectX with the creators update - and Creative has/won't update the driver set for any older sound card. I have one that is just a few years old and they (Creative) re-released the new drivers with the Windows 10 creators update.

So if you're mic isn't working, and you have a older SB sound card, you're pooched.

[Skuzzy]

Microsoft has never made it a secret they were not going to to support older hardware.  As Microsoft goes, the industry follows.

[Mister Fork]

Microsoft has never made it a secret they were not going to to support older hardware.  As Microsoft goes, the industry follows.

Sad but true Skuzzy. Sad but true.

[Skuzzy]

If one was paranoid, one could speculate (rant, rave.....) Microsoft has made an agreement with Intel and AMD if they only support Windows 10 with new CPU's/chipsets, that Microsoft would drop support for older hardware forcing everyone to buy the new stuff.

That way everyone, but the customer, wins.

Like I said,..if I was paranoid.

[morfiend]

If one was paranoid, one could speculate (rant, rave.....) Microsoft has made an agreement with Intel and AMD if they only support Windows 10 with new CPU's/chipsets, that Microsoft would drop support for older hardware forcing everyone to buy the new stuff.

That way everyone, but the customer, wins.

Like I said,..if I was paranoid.

   


       


  What the ultimate goal is to move the OS completely off your system!  I see a cloud base OS and everyone will have to go current to access it.  Will make monitoring much more simple for the powers that be.........

 Nah I aint paranoid.....  not stupid either.



     

[Skuzzy]

Actually, Microsoft has made no secret of the fact they are moving toward a cloud based OS.  It makes it easier for them to control your computer.

[Eagler]

where is the on/off button?

Ok, I just got done testing the new Game Mode in the Win 10 Creators Edition Update w\ AHIII....................

1.) It does work..........verified by running the game w\ Game Mode on vs off w\o me enabling CPU affinity (CPU priority setting of High would not affect this.....only enhance it by increasing the CPU core priority % slice for the AHIII game threads to be assigned over the other processes w\ a lower priority rank....meaning the only other process running w\ the same priority rank is the OS itself. All other process threads will get a smaller % of CPU core processing time assigned. This helps AHIII to run much better--read smoother here, not necessarily faster--than it would at it's default priority rank of "Normal") then using RTSS\HWINFO overlay to monitor CPU core usage % & CPU core clock speeds across all 8 physical CPU cores (have SMT Mode disabled in UEFI).
2.) It shows to help Win 10 schedulers make better thread allocation choices to optimize this AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core CPU when it is enabled for AHIII.

With Game Mode off:
Game threads are consistently scheduled as per the old standard token ring method as used within a SMP designed architecture CPU........Core0 getting the majority of threads assigned w\ Core1 getting most of the spillover w\ the rest of the cores getting used for mostly context switches w\ the 1st CCX module (CPU Core 0, 1, 2, 3) getting most of the threads assigned w\ very, very few threads crossing to the 2nd CCX module (CPU Core 4, 5, 6, 7) so this 2nd CCX module is for the most part not really being used.........roughly 1\2 of the total potential of the CPU is not being taken advantage of. SMT being enabled will only make this situation worse, not better.

With Game Mode on:
Game threads are mostly split consistently between the 2 CCX modules w\ approx 53% going to CPU Core 0 in the 1st CCX module, approx 37% going to CPU Core 4 in 2nd CCX module then the rest of the CPU cores within each CCX module being used to handle any spillover or context switching between CPU cores within each CCX module, again showing very, very few threads crossing between the 2 CCX modules so this is making the attempt to spread out the entire CPU load across the 2 CCX modules in a somewhat even distribution instead of just 1 CCX module........which will make for better utilization of this CPU's full potential.....as long as the Infinity Fabric interconnect can adequately handle the data traffic so both CCX's can take full advantage of the massive shared L3 caches across Infinity Fabric interconnect to system mem cache. In some ways this behavior resembles what I've read up as to how a CPU designed on a NUMA architecture would be used by an OS that can recognize it.......such as Windows 7\8\8.1\10.......by seeing these CCX modules as separate CPU "nodes" within the CPU die thus assigning game\OS\drivers\etc threads w\ a higher priority rank\shorter time slice to the 1st CCX "node" for faster execution then any lower ranking game\OS\drivers\etc threads w\ a lower priority rank\longer time slice getting assigned to the 2nd CCX "node" for slower execution then all finished data is sent to the large shared L3 cache for transmission to system cache\devices when called for. This process has the tendency to reduce the appearance\occurance of frequent potential CPU core context switching\bus contention across the CPU cores within each CCX module to the shared L3 cache mem within each CCX module speeding up overall CPU performance over a SMP branch architecture CPU when multi-threaded apps are run on them. Then the only issue left is the ability for Infinity Fabric interconnect to bridge between the 2 L3 caches within each CCX module to system mem cache w\o inducing bus contention to transmit the finished data from the 2 CCX modules when called for (it is this section of the AMD Ryzen CPU's that is having the issues w\ mem modules compatibility).

My 2 cents on this......................... .....

If I could physically assign the AHIII game threads myself on this Ryzen 7 CPU they would be evenly split across the 2 CCX modules in much the same fashion as Win 10's Game Mode is assisting Win 10 thread schedulers to do.

So I like this Game Mode for how I'm seeing it help Win 10 schedulers make better use of this AMD Ryzen 7 CPU to it's strengths.

Back to more testing.............err...pla ying.

 

[Pudgie]

where is the on/off button?

1st, the Game Bar has to be enabled under Settings, Gaming. This is so when you hit the Win + G keys once you start AHIII you can pull it up.
2nd, the Game Mode has to be enabled under Settings, Gaming as well.

Then once you open the Game Bar when you have started AHIII to the initial opening screen (AHIII ain't on the Windows Store approved list so the Game Bar will automatically read AHIII as a game and enable Game Mode itself), click on the Settings button then on the 1st popup you will see, at the top of it you will see a checkbox that when checked tells Win 10 to run AHIII (or any game that is currently started) under Game Mode. This is how you manually set the Game Mode to run w\ any game that isn't auto recognized. The other setting choices let you enhance it's usage w\ the game.

Then play to your heart's content. Once this is initially set up Win 10 will then "remember" the game's.exe then will auto enable Game Mode from there on when it detects the game's .exe executed.......until either you change it or for some reason the OS resets this on an update (the latter is conspiracy paranoia on my part as I haven't witnessed Win 10 do it yet....... ..........).

Hope this helps you out.

 

[Pudgie]

If one was paranoid, one could speculate (rant, rave.....) Microsoft has made an agreement with Intel and AMD if they only support Windows 10 with new CPU's/chipsets, that Microsoft would drop support for older hardware forcing everyone to buy the new stuff.

That way everyone, but the customer, wins.

Like I said,..if I was paranoid.

You might have something there................going from my own experiences w\ Win 10.

When I tried to load the retail copy of Win 10 Home on the Intel I7 5820K\Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 mobo setup when I originally bought it (all came out before Win 10 debut) I was using prior, I couldn't get it to work right no matter how I tried.......all my device drivers just wouldn't load properly, was getting errors after errors so I gave up, wiped it all & reinstalled Win 7 HP SP1. CPU was Haswell-E.......

When I loaded this same retail copy of Win 10 Home on this new AMD Ryzen 7 1800X\Gigabyte AX370 Gaming K5 mobo setup that I just got recently (supported CPU for Win 10) I had absolutely no issues loading the same drivers for the same devices being used on the prior Intel setup on this AMD setup....all went very, very smooth. I've had absolutely no issues loading\setting up all my 3rd party software that I was using w\ my prior Intel platform on this AMD platform....all have gone very, very smooth w\ no issues w\ any of this software running, even after going thru the Anniversary Update and the Creators Edition Upgrade. They didn't even give me any issues when I called them to activate it (I had installed this before) once I read back to the tech the supplied product key code that verified my copy to be genuine..........

Heck, I'm not seeing any issues w\ this box so far from shutting down as many of the "telemetry" settings that I have so far. I keep checking Windows Update to see how many times my box has been "communicating" and so far I've noted very few instances where Microsoft "checked in" and I've definately noted that none of the stuff I've disabled has\was turned back on since I've disabled them......even after I ran the Win 10 Creators Edition Upgrade...........

Hhhmmmm..............

To add to this conspiracy...........maybe then Microsoft would also back off on all the agressiveness in regards to telemetry usage as well if a user did buy all new stuff and installed Win 10 to "reward" you (and AMD & Intel) for buying the new AMD & Intel stuff....not completely stop but allow enough of a reprieve to make 1 think that they've stopped................

Things that make you go "Hhhmmm.........."

 

[Infidelz]

I had a lot of problems with my installation because I put in a new mother board Z270F with the 7700K and then had to make the win10 upgrade. My X65F would not install and neither would my Joysticks. Here are some of the resourse I used to resolve the issues:

win10 upgrade Free
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

USB stuff
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/180924-Saitek-X52-X52Pro-X55-X65f-BETA-drivers-for-Windows-10

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?s=c43c00d2ae3d27dfe4618546ffcc7ad5&t=84295&page=2

https://tipsfromanand.wordpress.com/2016/11/26/how-to-install-unsigned-driver-if-you-have-to-in-windows-10/

remove old drivers
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/remove-old-drivers-after-upgrading-to-new-hardware/

http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-delete-old-drivers-in-windows-10/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_KPTnHgAl8

driver removal
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19886995/need-to-completely-remove-a-device-driver-in-windows-7

Last resort (didn't need this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdMYiUxFenU

Pretty much cleaning up the device manager list and then the INF file removal did the trick for me (I created a log file and deleted all Saitek/madcatz references). They give good directions on that.

Still had issues with AH3 DX11 not updating. Had to do a fresh download every time. This was solved by going to native oculus installation. Had to recal all joysticks but it has been worth it.

[Pudgie]

Update:

I have accidentally found out that the Win 10 Game Mode is using CPU core affinity to optimize games (it looks for the fastest CPU cores while the game is running then will assign as many of the game's threads to them as it can).

I found this out by intentionally going into TM & manually setting CPU affinity to CPU cores 4,5,6,7 then after running the game I exited the game completely, opened another app then shut it down then went back into AHIII then opened TM to check CPU core affinity assignment to the AHIII running process (thinking that this should've reset itself back to all CPU cores...)....I found that the CPU core affinity was still assigned as I had assigned it prior..................

Hhhmmm..............I thought..........

So I devised a major test to see if Win 10 Game Mode was really remembering the CPU core affinity settings for AHIII & being saved to disk for reapplication as follows:

I went back into TM w\ AHIII running at initial screen & manually set the CPU core affinity for AHIII to CPU cores 2,3,6,7 (to split them across the 2 CCX units) then played the game to run in this config for Game Mode to see this then shut down the game then shut off my computer for 2 mins to allow all to completely power down & mem to drain completely so all will be reloaded from the SSD.
Then I restarted my box & when it got back to the desktop I started the game to the initial screen then opened TM to check the CPU core affinity settings for AHIII.....lo & behold they were showing to STILL be set as I had set them before I shut my box down (CPU cores 2,3,6,7).
This did not happen prior to me setting up AHIII to run w\ Win 10's Game Mode thru the Win 10 Game Bar so this has to be Win 10's Game Mode doing this. It was consistently splitting the game threads across the 2 CCX units w\o me doing anything but I now know that it will remember a manual CPU core affinity setting as well............

So it shows that Win 10 Game Mode is setting CPU core affinity to optimize a game's thread execution on a CPU either by picking the fastest CPU cores it sees on it's own to assign the game's threads to for optimization OR by remembering a manual CPU core affinity setting made for the game it is set up to optimize & assign the game threads to them as set.

As far as Game Mode doing other things to optimize a game I don't know at this time....but I DO know that Game Mode is using CPU core affinity to optimize game execution on Win 10 if it is enabled & set up for a game.

FYI........

 

[Shuffler]

I have 9 computers at the shop and 3 at the house updated and none of them are showing any issues yet.