Player numbers down?

[Vraciu]

Very true. But there's a missing component, I think. What is truly lacking is not necessarily fighter v. fighter action but fighter v. any plane action.

Think of the MA as a marine ecosystem. What we have now is a relative overabundant shark population and not enough lesser predators and baitfish to support it. It's an unhealthy system.

If you think of town and base objects as the krill that feeds the little fish and bottom feeders, you'll see that our ecosystem has too many crabs and not enough schooling baitfish. Since the crabs and baitfish compete against each other for their feed, the animal that has the easier time finding food thrives at the expense of the other.

If you haven't figured it out yet, crabs are GV's.

The current game makes it too easy for GV's to dictate the ground war. We no longer have hordes and missions (schooling baitfish) attacking bases and towns because it much easier for players to take a GV to accomplish their task (finds food).

Without abundant schooling baitfish, we are left with the predators eating themselves with predictable results. The good pilots feed and the lesser ones die and die often, then leave the game for happier feeding grounds. Only the truly gifted or stubborn pilots can thrive in the current environment.


We need game mechanics in place to promote more aircraft attacking objects and GV's alike. It is far too easy for GV's to both fight and succeed vs. themselves but especially aircraft. When their success comes at the direct behest of the air combat, it is not healthy for an air combat game.

GVs have crabs?    

But, as stated, if people THINKING about coming back actually did this place would be buzzing with activity and these threads wouldn't be started.

[Toad]

I think Devil 505 makes good points.

I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.

For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.

On June 7 Panzer Lehr began its move from Chartres to Normandy in daylight. Its commander, Fritz Bayerlein, who had also seen service in North Africa, objected but was overruled. As soon as the armored column was spotted it was savaged by Allied fighter-bombers. Bayerlein described the roads as being ‘a fighter-bomber race course.’ His division lost 150 trucks and fuel tankers, five tanks and self-propelled guns, as well as a number of halftracks and prime movers in a matter of a few hours.

[BowHTR]

I think Devil 505 makes good points.

I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.

For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.

Please remember this is a game and not a WWII simulator.

[Toad]

Exactly.

And while the aircraft are fairly closely limited to their actual RL capabilities, the GVs are not.

For example, in the game the aircraft are pretty easy to spot as they would be in RL and the GVs are far more difficult to spot than they would be in RL.

For example, where aircraft have to fly across a sector of water to attack a base on a different landmass as they did in RL, the GVs simply (Hey! Presto!) spawn from one base across a sector of water into an attack position on a different landmass. No boarding an LST and disembarking on a contested beachead as in RL.

Thus, this is why I say the game has been skewed to favor GVs in some (many?) respects.

That links directly to Devil's allegory. There's not enough baitfish anymore. The crabs took their jobs.

[715]

You guys sure hate GVers.  However, you seem to think that if you take away my GV you will force me to fight you in a plane.  No.  I'll just leave.  And if the typically 25% of players who GV do the same you think the player numbers will go up?

And you seem to think newbies and others with no talent gravitate to GVs?  Try showing up at AvA Thursday night tank fights and see how long you last.  (Hint: probably not long.)

[The Fugitive]

You guys sure hate GVers.  However, you seem to think that if you take away my GV you will force me to fight you in a plane.  No.  I'll just leave.  And if the typically 25% of players who GV do the same you think the player numbers will go up?

And you seem to think newbies and others with no talent gravitate to GVs?  Try showing up at AvA Thursday night tank fights and see how long you last.  (Hint: probably not long.)

Lets clarify, newbies and others with no talent IN PLANES gravitate to GVs 

[JimmyD3]

I think Devil 505 makes good points.

I do think the game has skewed significantly away from air combat when compared to its origins. I assume this is by intent, as there have been many advantages given to GVs that they did not have in WW2.

For example there was a reason the German vehicles quit moving during the day. Too easy to spot from the air, unlike the situation here.

The aircraft in AH have access to the exact same info the WW2 pilots had, plus some. There were no gv icons, you couldn't "hear" the gv running, the towns didn't flash. Now I'll grant you, as far as I know, tanks didn't "Main Gun" aircraft down either. There are no "vehicle convoys" in AH, so that argument is irrelevant.

[BowHTR]

Exactly.

And while the aircraft are fairly closely limited to their actual RL capabilities, the GVs are not.

For example, in the game the aircraft are pretty easy to spot as they would be in RL and the GVs are far more difficult to spot than they would be in RL.

For example, where aircraft have to fly across a sector of water to attack a base on a different landmass as they did in RL, the GVs simply (Hey! Presto!) spawn from one base across a sector of water into an attack position on a different landmass. No boarding an LST and disembarking on a contested beachead as in RL.

Thus, this is why I say the game has been skewed to favor GVs in some (many?) respects.

That links directly to Devil's allegory. There's not enough baitfish anymore. The crabs took their jobs.

So you think that GVs should have to drive entire distances to other fields? Again, this is a GAME. Not a simulator. Things are made easier to make it fun and enjoyable. It's the same as you not having to control your mixture and what not in your plane. You can just spawn to the runway and go full throttle and have at it.

I would say the game doesn't favor GVs anymore than it does planes.

[LocoMoto]

Lets clarify, newbies and others with no talent IN PLANES gravitate to GVs 

Or if caught early on and put through the grinder they turn out like us fugi.  Its up to the player to stick it out and try over and over until they get it right.

[Devil 505]

The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.

want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope
need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3
other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank
Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb

As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.

We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.

GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.

[BowHTR]

The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.

want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope
need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3
other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank
Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb

As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.

We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.

GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.

This game is so much more than an air combat game. Respectively, this is an open world game. Where the player has the option to fly or drive whatever they wish.

If the game was intended to be only an air combat game, there wouldn't be any GV's. The game is setup to make it enjoyable for those that enjoy planes, vehicles, or both.

[The Fugitive]

I dont think the the game favors GVs other than a skill level. While "fighting" (and I use that term VERY loosely as more often than not it is spawn camping) in GV has it's own set of skills, not as many are needed to be learned as dose flying especially if all you do is spawn camp.

So those that find flying a fighter "just too hard" opt to make high alt buff runs, or hide in the trees at a spawn in a GV. This takes away from the numbers in the air fighting which leads to more and more people leaving to find games that are more entertaining.

Last night Rooks and Knits had a fun fight going at 33. Knits were defending, Rooks attacking. There were fights from 10-12k and down to the deck. There were GVs in and around the town, and the occasional buff group that came in. It lasted over an hour and was still going on when I logged. It seemed like everyone was having fun.

What was different? Attackers didn't hose the field, nor did they de-ack. Defenders didn't go out and pork front line Rook bases to slow the attack (like the Bish had along the other front killing any kind of action there). Defenders didn't spawn camp the Rooks spawn, nor did the Rook vehicles go near the field to vulch or spawn camp the defending vehicles coming out. I did hear once that the ORDs had been dropped, but for the most part is was a good old fun fight with many styles of play covered, EVERYONE was having fun.

What was different? These are the fights I live for and wish we had more of. If I could bottle what ever was different last night Id give it away free to have that kind of fun every night.

I dont think the game "favors" one type of play over any other, but game play can do so easily. Last night we had the "right" players to generate a great fight for many styles of play. Tonight it may be geared more toward NOEs or GV spawn camping, but its the players who decide, not the game. 

[Toad]

You guys sure hate GVers. 

Not at all.

A good game has balance. The advantages given to GVs in this game have, IMO, unbalanced the game.

Chess is a really good game. However, if the Black side started with TWO Queens and the White side only had ONE...the game would be unbalanced.

That's all I am saying. The advantages given to GVs in this game have, IMO, unbalanced the game.

No one wants to take away anyone's GV; some are saying the game needs to be re-balanced.

[AAIK]

I am seeing some new names around.

[Vraciu]

The point is this: in an AIR COMBAT game the better solution to any problem should never be a GV.

want to kill a town - take a bomber, not a Calliope
need to capture a base - take a goon, not and M3
other GV's trying to capture your base - take an Il-2, not a tank
Tired of your tank getting killed by Il-2's - take a fighter, not a Wirb

As it stands, none of those aircraft options are the better option and game suffers because of it.

We need to restore the standard icons to the GV's, heavily perk the Wirbelwind, and add some tangible incentive to flying the Storch.

GV's traveling under enemy skies should be similar to baby sea turtles trying to make it to the sea - easy pickings.

Couldn't agree more.   Well said.