Do away with manned guns

[lunatic1]

With the player count the way it is there is no need for them, more players in planes and GV is what is needed.


Flame away 

Wezel you and I are friends-both fly and GV for Knights long time.

last knight you said you were quiting because of the way the gv game is, so why do you care about manned guns, besides a player is only in a gun until the gun is destroyed, happens pretty fast.
-1

[The Fugitive]

Flayed1, the game has changed. deack doesn't happen much anymore because no one wants to waste the bullets. Someone else will get around to it and they can vulch more with all that extra ammo.

the same goes for ord. why take it out? then you wont see all those fat low easy kills running out to the cv any more.

The game is no longer about combat, but easy kills to get your name in lights.

[1ijac]

Missions tend to be more successful when certain objects are desired targets.  You can task certain individuals to deack and destroy certain objects.  Otherwise, some pilots figure "
I'll let someone else do it and take the hits and then I'll vulch".

Typically, most players are not that good in the 37 or 88 guns.  There are a few who are fairly good.  From the air approach the man guns not in a direct line, but in a weave pattern to diminish the chances of being hit, weaving as you egress.  Speed helps also.

one-eye

[Lazerr]

Manned guns are fine.. they should be scored differently IMO.  Any player vs player kill should count on eachother.  The part that is annoying is when nobody attempts defense because they can just pop in a gun with no penalty for a death in one.

[Wiley]

Manned guns are fine.. they should be scored differently IMO.  Any player vs player kill should count on eachother.  The part that is annoying is when nobody attempts defense because they can just pop in a gun with no penalty for a death in one.

Do you really think it's got anything to do with "no penalty"?  I'd say they do it because it's easier.

Wiley.

[1ijac]

True Lazer.  But the gun killing of a plane does not factor into that gun pilot's score either.  The gun can be killed so easily.  Why should an airplane pilot get credit for a kill and not the gun pilot?  I suppose Hitech could make the kills by an airplane pilot show in text as it does for the gun players and not count towards the airplane pilot's score.  If it did count towards score for both, then maybe consider dramatically increasing the hardness of the man guns to give the man gun a more level chance.

one-eye   

[bustr]

Times have changed yes, I don't think manned guns matter unless you are trying to have a small furball at a field and not enough of the red guys feel confident about their ACM or are fight oriented. When they are, no one de-acks, and everyone puts up with having to fight around the ack and not de-ack. I've notice once you de-ack, the nice cozy furball stops and you are lucky to find another one just like it that day. Once the ack is gone and the vulch is on, the defenders are no where to be found. And the inverse was a CV attack that was just a furball until some genius sunk the CV and screwed the furball. No one de-acked the field so no vulching but, we had to get near the ack becasue of the 3k puffy limit from our ships holding the defenders down. The problem to these scenario is how fast a cozy furball gets turned into a base capture if another dozen or so show up and de-ack the place. 

I finally had a chance to watch one of those map room on the airfield small airfields captured on NDisles over the weekend. So no resupply was available to screw with the action like at a town. 20 guys had fun swamping the place and cluster floogeling the whole event. But, they were excited and engaged about it. Everything that could go wrong because everyone wanted someone else to do it went wrong. That's why the field was crawling with wirbles even with the record breaking speed the field was de-acked. And several tanks were spawned in 5 miles away slowly driving to the field giving foot by foot updates on their progress while everyone kept warning everyone else about wirbles and crying for eggs. Very few had a clue what the rules were for the airfield being ready for troops, so the disinformation and verbal paranoia was equal to a few wirbles and fighters active on the field. These guys were their own worst enemy, which seems to be the norm for base captures these days. And an attitude of screw you don't tell me what to do I'll bomb the same line of already bombed town buildings if I want to. I remember when players could fly their bomber boxes over a town and have it ready for troops in one pass, then take out the VH and beat up the airfield. That was not so long ago either.

During low numbers time periods or just a few guys trying to do something at a field away from the majority, manned ack can be an issue if you really want someone to fight. Otherwise without ack, everyone refuses to fight except for a tiny number in each country. Players fight because they choose to, not because Hitech takes away any other option but to feed themselves to a grinder. They feel more like fighting if you have to risk as much coming into their ack range as they do trying to face you with their weekend warrior level ACM skills. And the poster of this wish continues a sentiment I've seen for 15 years with wishes like this one. Getting whacked by AI ack is the cost of doing business, getting whacked by a person is a personal insult that some players have a low tolerance for.   

[Randy1]

Manned guns are fine.. they should be scored differently IMO.  Any player vs player kill should count on eachother.  The part that is annoying is when nobody attempts defense because they can just pop in a gun with no penalty for a death in one.

If you are sitting above a base close enough to get hit by an 88 then that is your fault.  The 88 hits a little past 2k start becoming pure luck for most gunners.  Just don't stay so close to the bases.

I use 88s to push close fighters back from the runway.  I must admit watching a vulcher turn to toast is great fun. 

[1stpar3]

 

[1stpar3]

THIS.....    Last night I made 3 flights to a base to deack it while many other folks just flew around in circles waiting for uppers.   I remember the old days when first priority was ack. VH and ord, if we were spawning GV's and then FH and maybe BH if we were really serious about taking a base.
  I've been to so many base take attempts lately where guys might kill the ord and maybe VH but let the ACK ping away all the while attempting to keep the fighters down,  calling out that town is white flagged and they need troops while the fighters fly over and kill the requested troops. lol. Insert Captain Picard face palm pic here...
 Several times I've had the same experience with people not killing ord when we have a CV right off shore for 15 to 20 min, especially if it's a small base and there are only 2 freekin bunkers! I't not that hard. But they are great at calling out the incoming bombers and squeaking when the CV gets sunk.
  I'm not really sure whats going on here but I have to say as much as I love porking things I do tire of seemingly being the only one some times and wish others would step up a bit.
 Ive listened to GHI having the same problem insert accent "Come on guys pork thee base. OMG I can't believe this. Get the ACK down. Keel thee VH!"   
  Any way -1 to this wish. Just take a 9-T and put 1 cannon round in a gun and poof problem solved. 

I was there,with ya last night. When you and I got there, the guns were being resupplied at town and field. The hangers were coming back as well. Thats the trade off with numbers as they are, IF the rockets and bombs had been put on JUST TOWN. that base would have been captured, an hour before we got there. Everyone that deacked had to come back twice as was medium field. When I got there, about 15 min before I first saw you, base still had manned guns,but no one manning them. Townup 100% all guns up. % guys vultching one upper! Then the dreaded "RTB out of ammo...ME TOO,SAME HERE...I will come with". NOW just me I got 4 guns in town and BRAINBOXED by Lutrell in a wirb, that noone saw leave the field. Point being, taking a base requires a BIT more planning, but you cant plan game play for everyone.  Too me, BEST DEFENCE AGAINST VULTCHERS  roll an a 20 and stop half way down runway(with guns up ) second best up a FI and hover over groun low. GUARANTEED to either kill them or run them out of ammo,thus allowing defenders to show up   You have to understand that in that case last night, it was just a VULTCH em ALL thing. After the dedicated planners leave its hard to find players willing to get shot, finishing something they didnt start. ESPECIALLY when there are easy kills to put your effort into. Sure you may get killed anyway....But you GOT 4 kills. Just my 3 cents Also Flayed, when most ask "Is it DEACKED" I assume they mean TOWN, not base.So sorry for the bad intel, when I answered your question. TOWN was deacked and base guns were popping.  Town is ALWAYS my first target as far as deack goes. That is a MUST to capture, base is just icing on the cake. I care nothing about vultching, so base is never my first concern in a capture. Other than a shut down situation. Bombs and rockets to kill hanger....other ord goes to town guns (EVERY TIME). Thats just me

[DmonSlyr]

With the player count the way it is there is no need for them, more players in planes and GV is what is needed.


Flame away 

Literally posted this same wish like 2 months ago. People here would rather pick their butt in Point an shoot game play, than actually partake in being in the action. Sort of like how people vote to pay higher taxes. Just doesn't make sense.

[DmonSlyr]

If you look at this months current stats. The T-34, ship Guns, and Wirblewind, have the highest amount of kills. The ship gun beats the wirble by 2967 kills! T34 has only 100 more kills than the gunners, which actually surprised me. The T34 had 13,000 kills last month... That almost doubles the wirblewind at 6800 kills. Look at all of the fighters the wirble has killed alone. Add percieved fighters killed by field ack only, roughly 15%-30% of ship gunner kills, you can see that probably 1/3 or more  of air deaths are killed by ground Vehicles or field ack.

[lyric1]

With the player count the way it is there is no need for them Flame away.

Hey where not all flamers!
Some of us just like to get dressed up for the occasion 

[Lusche]

If you look at this months current stats. The T-34, ship Guns, and Wirblewind, have the highest amount of kills. The ship gun beats the wirble by 2967 kills! T34 has only 100 more kills than the gunners, which actually surprised me. The T34 had 13,000 kills last month... That almost doubles the wirblewind at 6800 kills. Look at all of the fighters the wirble has killed alone. Add percieved fighters killed by field ack only, roughly 15%-30% of ship gunner kills, you can see that probably 1/3 or more  of air deaths are killed by ground Vehicles or field ack.

Ok, let's talk numbers.

In the first 9 months of this year

11% of all bomber and
6% of all fighter deaths

were caused by manned guns. The huge majority of manned gun kills on planes is being made by 5" gunners on Cv's, which is also very much reflected by the kills stats (mostly Lancasters, Tu-2s, B-26). Also the Ju-88 has a very disproportional high share of deaths vs manned ack.
When loocking at fighters, the deaths by manned guns are largely made up by the usual bomb trucks, with CV jabos leading the pack: F4U-1D, F6F, P-38L, P-51D, Bf-110G, P-47D-40, FW 190A8, P-47N. Fighter planes that are commonly more used for air to air combat generally have significant lower rate of deaths by manned ack than 6%.


I also have to chuckle when I read complaints about those "easy mode 88s" reaching out to 10k and killing fighters. With a crippled rate of traverse, no sight and no proxy fuse like the 5" have, most players can forget even hitting bombers at ranges beyond 3k on a regular base. (When flying at my standard alt of 12k over a base in 26s,  I frequently encounter 88 fire. I almost never get hit.) To any maneuvering fighter, a 88 is more an annoyance than something to dread.

Yes, kills at longer ranges do happen, but they are more by freak chance than anything else.

[BuckShot]

Manned 88s seem so harmless to fighters I like it when someone is in them.

The boom, boom, boom adds to the immersion.