Author Topic: Is 4GB of RAM Enough  (Read 12079 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #105 on: February 05, 2018, 06:07:17 PM »

EDIT IN: PROBLEM SOLVED.   I rebooted it after going through the manual select process and now it's finding it.   I realize my new CPU is the same 3.0 GHz as my last one, but with four cores instead of two it definitely makes a difference when running multiple programs.

Now to figure out how to lock a core for AH3.

___________________________


Okay gang..........

Quad Core is in.   It's working.  I'll figure out how to lock one core onto AH3 later but.......................... .............

When I boot up the machine isn't seeing the HDD.  I can boot via the temporary device menu option and get to Windows no problem, but it will not autostart.

Any ideas?

:frown:  :salute
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 06:17:40 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #106 on: February 05, 2018, 09:57:46 PM »
EDIT IN: PROBLEM SOLVED.   I rebooted it after going through the manual select process and now it's finding it.   I realize my new CPU is the same 3.0 GHz as my last one, but with four cores instead of two it definitely makes a difference when running multiple programs.

Now to figure out how to lock a core for AH3.

___________________________


Okay gang..........

Quad Core is in.   It's working. I'll figure out how to lock one core onto AH3 later but.......................................

When I boot up the machine isn't seeing the HDD.  I can boot via the temporary device menu option and get to Windows no problem, but it will not autostart.

Any ideas?

:frown:  :salute

Hi Vraciu,

Once you've gotten all else lined out...............

You might try to run AHIII on your new setup as it is to see if it will run then open TM, Performance, CPU to check to see if,
1. The CPU cores are all unlocked (at top of each core in upper rt corner should show 100% for each core). If any show 0% then they are parked and this is the 1st item to address,
2. Which CPU cores are being used the most (Windows uses a round-robin, token ring approach to thread assignment....always starts w\ CPU core0, then goes to CPU core1 if core0 is busy, etc. This is why CPU core0 is usually always the heaviest used CPU core........). This is where CPU priority\affinity can be of some use to help the game to run better (read SMOOTHER here, not necessarily FASTER) on this "new" PhenomII X4 945 CPU.

Now TC might know this part, but I'm under the impression that w\ the PhenomII CPU's AMD did fix the timer issue so that all going forward would use the HPET timer as all Intel CPU's so if this is so you should see more than 1 CPU core being utilized by default.

Now you CAN run AHIII on 1 CPU core, but I personally wouldn't recommend it. Have data to back this up. Minimum I would recommend to use is 2 CPU cores.

If you're still using Win 10 then the core parking issue should be a non gratis up front as this is 1 area where Win 10 has shown to be working well (by default Win 10 has shown to run all physical CPU cores unparked).........

In the meantime I'll look up a CPU core block diagram for a PhenomII CPU to look at the layout for familiarity...............

Let us know when you're ready to play w\ it.

 :salute
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 10:06:36 PM by Pudgie »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2018, 11:41:46 PM »
Good stuff.   I will take a gander at it later based on your post.  Afterburner showed four cores working.   I was running many processes to try and spike it. Seemed good.  It was faster AND smoother for sure.  I think the x2 I had before was bottlenecking everything.  This chip seems to chew through things a bit faster.   Not each program on its own perhaps, but when multi-tasking, i.e. having AH, YT, PSP, and Skin Viewer all going...

I think my x2 was just not hacking it. 

Or it’s just a placebo effect.  Lol


So what next?   
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2018, 09:00:30 AM »
This is another week full of Dr.s appointments, specialist visits, X-rays, MRIs, CTscans, etc....

I'm in agreement with Pudgie's post above.... Some time ago, I posted about the timeline of when AMD noticed they had an issue that needed to be fixed with "timer" and pretty sure it was addressed during production of the Phenom ll model AMD CPUs....

One other thing I have noticed building PCs for myself and others using AMD phenom ll quad-core CPUs is that every one I have had access to actually have an additional 2 cores turned off in the bios..... I have messed around turning them on and even had success overclocking all 6 cores without issues... But I've not seriously found a need for anything more than a quad-core CPU regardless if it is AMD or INTEL....

But going forward if I decide to build anymore PCs, I'm thinking/been reading up on the new AMD Ryzen II's / AMD Raven APUs among other things.... Along with what the INTEL side is coming out with....

Here lately it seems like the PC and PC component's market reminds me of paying prices like we had back in 1988 thru 1993.... heh remember paying over $4,500.00+ for a 486x2 60MHz with 4 MB System ram and 512K video, before doing any upgrades....

anyway, hopefully your Phenom II CPU works AH3 with multiple cores.... and like Spike posted you should be OK with overclocking up .2 to .4 with the stock CPU fan and heatsink, I would not push it past that....either bump it to 3.2 GHz or 3.4 GHz (only if you think you might need to)

"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2018, 10:57:42 AM »
I remember paying $5K for an Epson Equity I - 512KB RAM, Dual 5.25” Floppy, 2400 Baud Modem.   They threw in SubLogic’s JET for free.   Woot!
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Offline Denniss

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2018, 03:14:56 PM »
One other thing I have noticed building PCs for myself and others using AMD phenom ll quad-core CPUs is that every one I have had access to actually have an additional 2 cores turned off in the bios..... I have messed around turning them on and even had success overclocking all 6 cores without issues... But I've not seriously found a need for anything more than a quad-core CPU regardless if it is AMD or INTEL....
Then you must have had an incredible amount of luck to get your hands on multiple of the very rare Zosma Quadcores which were actually X6 with two cores disabled, the only X4 in revision E0.
BTW I'm typing this on an X4 945 95W Rev C3 which is undervolted and trimmed for silence.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2018, 05:56:06 AM »
Actually the one I first built using a quad-core CPU and is still running almost nonstop since April 2011 is an AMD Q975 phenom ll quad-core B.E. 3.6 GHz Deneb <---spelling? CPU and it has 6 cores with 2 disabled... (BTW I typo'ed earlier calling it a Q965 model)

I have found dual-core AMD CPUs that have had 2 extra cores disabled as well....

"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Pudgie

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2018, 10:09:05 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II

Found this interesting.................. ......

 :salute
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #113 on: February 07, 2018, 11:22:44 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II

Found this interesting.................. ......

 :salute

Good stuff.  Makes me wonder what my overclock potential is...

I was using this one to see if I could get the 955 to work.  I’m now running a 945 C3.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors#.22Deneb.22_.28C2.2FC3.2C_45_nm.2C_quad-core.29
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 11:28:18 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #114 on: February 08, 2018, 01:43:32 AM »
Good stuff.  Makes me wonder what my overclock potential is...

I was using this one to see if I could get the 955 to work.  I’m now running a 945 C3.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Phenom_microprocessors#.22Deneb.22_.28C2.2FC3.2C_45_nm.2C_quad-core.29

Hey Vraciu, when you purchased that 945, was it listed as a "Black Edition" ? If not you might not be able to overclock it if I remember correctly.... Think that only the B.E. models came with an unlocked multiplier....

Hope that it's working well for you

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #115 on: February 08, 2018, 08:09:02 AM »
Hey Vraciu, when you purchased that 945, was it listed as a "Black Edition" ? If not you might not be able to overclock it if I remember correctly.... Think that only the B.E. models came with an unlocked multiplier....

Hope that it's working well for you

TC

Not a BE.  But as per Pudgie’s link the non-BE can overclock just not as much.

I can’t find a cracked BIOS for LENOVO though, so am stuck with software overclocking...
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2018, 09:40:39 AM »
Not a BE.  But as per Pudgie’s link the non-BE can overclock just not as much.

I can’t find a cracked BIOS for LENOVO though, so am stuck with software overclocking...

Yeah, I was thinking that the only way you would be able would be via AMD Overdrive software or possibly MSI's Afterburner (I don't recall if it has overclocking ability but think that it does)..... Yes my previous post was referring to Hardware ability to overclock via BIOS using FSB settings, voltage settings, the Multiplier, etc....

with my dementia issues I've had trouble remembering probably 1/2 or more of what I've researched and learned regarding AMD and INTEL CPU technology, having to go back and refresh my memory or searching through 1,000s of white papers and articles regarding all the changes since the 80s/90s ....

Are you using Windows 10 still? Or did you do a fresh install back to Windows 7?

How has your PC been performing since installing that 945 phenom ll quad-core CPU?


~S~

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #117 on: February 08, 2018, 10:32:59 AM »
I’m still with 10.  Performance has improved.   Programs still launch at the same speed (obviously) but the time it takes to start the launch has been reduced.   Scrolling is smoother under load in the skin viewer.   Micro stutters have been reduced to almost nothing in the game.  (They came back on my x2 even after I dumped my WiFi.)

Overall things definitely run smoother. 

I would like to go to 3.3 GHz and see if that helps the bottlenecking.  I’m sure my vid card is waiting in the CPU. 

Hopefully re-researching is helping to keep you mentally young, TC. 

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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #118 on: February 09, 2018, 12:08:03 PM »
Hi Vraciu,

By chance do you know what the specs are on the 2Gb x 2 DDR3 mem kit you're running? Especially CL and Freq?

I ask this as I had looked at the specs of your computer and noted that your mobo can accept some pretty high freq mem (PC8500).......

You could squeeze a little more performance out of your current rig by swapping in a faster set of mem modules over the existing mem modules you have by reducing the amount of time it is taking for the mem to transfer data when called for and to move more data within the same amount of time across the rising and falling mem clock cycles. Now what I'm about to suggest doesn't take into account the mem clock "wait" or "hold" time (the time in nano secs for the mem clock to switch\reset from the end of a rising clock cycle to the start of a falling clock cycle and vice-versa) or mem power stability which can vary depending on several variables but in the scheme of things will usually impart a very small\minor impact to the overall performance of a mem module outside of the cas latency\frequency relationship during the rising\falling clock cycles so the CL\Freq is the main relationship to focus on......to determine mem PERFORMANCE.

To determine the faster mem module just divide the frequency number by the cas latency number to get a final number of what the mem module in question could actually move within this total rise\fall clock time interval.....the larger the result, the faster the mem module but for the result to be noticeable the difference threshold needs to be at least 20 between the 2 to effectively account for any unforeseen variables. This is a simple formula to use to determine this by. If you want, you can search for sites that provide calculators to do the same thing that take in more of the variables to get a more accurate result but what you'll find is that the results of this simple formula will be very consistent to them..........

Example 1(I'm using some DDR4 mem I have as I know the CL & Freq numbers of it):

1. DDR4 13cl x 2133freq vs DDR4 15cl x 3000freq

2133\13 = 164.08 vs 3000\15 = 200.00 w\ spread of 35.92 so the DDR4 15cl x 3000 mem module is the faster mem module that the mem performance difference will most likely be noticeable between the 2 (you'll see and "feel" the difference when using your box).

Example 2:

2. DDR4 13cl x 2133freq  vs  DDR4 14cl x 2400freq

2133\13 = 164.08  vs  2400\14 = 171.43 w\ spread of 7.35 so the DDR4 14cl x 2400 mem module is TECHNICALLY the faster mem module, but the performance difference is so slight that you most likely won't notice it\notice a worst result due to the other variables not being effectively accounted for cancelling the small gains out. Now if you could find the same 2400 freq mem w\ a lower cl number the game can change (or the same 13 cl mem w\ a higher freq number)......

2133\13 = 164.08 vs 2400\13 = 184.62 w\ spread of 20.54......now you will most likely be able to notice a small difference in the performance as the spread between the 2 is large enough to actually make up for\overcome other variables not accounted for w\ some extra performance to show up visually and in "feel". The larger the spread is, the more noticeable the result will be until you meet\exceed the capacities of the rest of the system bus traces on the mobo (which usually should be the bus between the CPU and mem\DMA controller(s)). Any mem module performance gains past this point is wasted\useless.

The idea is to find the fastest overall mem modules (lowest CL w\ highest Freq) to use for the lowest\most practical costs that can meet\exceed expectations and work on your mobo w\o having to downclock it to fully optimize your existing computer's performance to the best you can within the limitations you're facing, and just using either the CL number or the Freq number alone can\will be somewhat misleading.....unless you actually hit the "numbers" by chance......

Of course the other option is to overclock the existing mem module's frequency to achieve the same result but now the power stability issue comes into play, but it's free performance if achievable......

Just putting this out there for your consideration if getting all the performance out of your existing box is what you're really wanting to do at this time. Now if you've already done this then good for you!

I now do this myself up front when I either upgrade to a new mobo or build from scratch w\ a new mobo as this also can save money over time.

Hope this can help you out.

 :salute


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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Is 4GB of RAM Enough
« Reply #119 on: February 10, 2018, 08:13:44 PM »
Let me check and get back to you, Pudgie.   :salute
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