Debating VR or a TrackIR system (older player re-joining)

[SpinDoc1]

Hello all,

It's been quite some time since I have been able to play Aces High, and upon seeing the progress in VR and TrackIR, I have been VERY excited to try and get back into it! I plan to build a decent computer setup for either visual setup. I have no experience with VR or TrackIR, and am coming from a simple 24" 1080p monitor.

Looking for some answers to the following very specific questions:
- With a VR system, how do folks with poor near-vision adapt to a VR headset? Is there decent focus adjustment?
- Does the more-limited graphics resolution of VR hamper the gameplay experience (from perspective of being able to detect, track, and engage targets)
- Are there visual enhancements that AH III can use to offset the perhaps limited graphics capability of a VR headset?
- Does the choice of joystick/HOTAS, etc. matter with a VR or TrackIR system? I currently have a Microsoft Force Feedback 2, but plan to get something like the Thrustmaster T.16000 setup (HOTAS and pedals)
- I love the thought of TrackIR for the more natural/fluid look to head movements. I don't have a good comparison for VR though, is the immersion piece similar or are there stark differences?
- Silly question: when I check-6 with a VR headset, do I actually have to crane my nugget all the way around, or is it feasible (and not too disorienting) to hotkey for rear view and then move my head as expected?

Thanks in advance, appreciate insights you can offer!

Spin Doc

[FLS]

I have both. VR is better than TIR.

The diving mask effect and screen door effect and limited resolution are all annoying when you notice them but usually you don't notice them because YOU'RE SITTING INSIDE YOUR AIRCRAFT and that makes up for a lot.

Stick with your FFB joystick if it still works.

Using a hat or button for rear views is a good idea with VR and TIR. You can scale the head movement in TIR so your view moves more than your head to see your 6, VR is natural movement only.

I recommend you build the new PC, get the Oculus Rift, then get a new faster monitor, then TIR if you still have a use for it.

No worries about near vision, you don't actually focus 2 inches away, there are lenses that set the focus to more normal distances.

[SpinDoc1]

Great stuff, thanks FLS!

With the current price of graphics cards, I'll need to be realistic on the PC build. I can't really blame the cryptocurrency miners, since I am one myself. Though I got my GTX 1070s and 1060s before the current near-double price increases.

As for the rest of the PC, are there any must-haves to ensure that a Rift runs smoothly? Thanks again.

[Puma44]

What FLS said.  I used Track IR for several years and very much enjoyed the immersion factor.  I’m about two months into Oculus Rift and love it.  As FLS said, you are actually in the airplane.  For reference, as a long time real world pilot, it’s as close to the real thing as you’re  going to get.  The only drawback is visual acuity. 

[1stpar3]

  I concur! The visual acuity can be an issue for folk. IMO though, being in the cockpit and the immersion MORE THAN enough to counter any resolution problems. Only thing I can add is this....VR is an 1:1 ratio as far as head tracking goes! CHAIR YOGA, as Bustr defined it Track IR is better IF you have mobility issues. All though as FLS stated, you can still program views and head positions with the rift(if the 1:1 is an issue). In fact, playing in VR is about the only exercise I get. YES its THAT addictive! I even tried to go back into using TIR, due to some idiot that shall remain anonymous  , scratching his lenses with his lenses! Just couldnt do it! Scratches or not, hands down BETTER. One more thing, if you do need glasses.. several company  make lens insets for the Rift! I would strongly advise that coarse of action...not unreasonably cost either. I cant think of the names of these companies but FLS can steer you in right direction!  

[streakeagle]

I am a long time TrackIR user and have had the Oculus Rift since the summer sale this year. As others have said, the 1:1 tracking and feeling of being inside the cockpit makes VR amazing. But the resolution is so low due to the wide field of view that it feels like playing at 800x600 on a large TV. Also, as wide as the field of view is, it still feels like you are looking through a paper towel roll.

Aces High is one of a few sims where VR has been implemented in a way where it is practical despite the resolution. If you are going to play Aces High and can afford VR, its advantages far outweigh its limitations. It is the combination of smooth, precise 1:1 head tracking and a wide field of view that beats the pants off flying with a normal monitor and TrackIR.

However, if you are tight on money, VR + acceptable GPU is a lot more than TrackIR + acceptable GPU. Unfortunately, GPU prices have been inflated for awhile. I got a deal on a GTX 1080 a while back: $470 after a $30 rebate. That's not cheap (it is the most I have ever spent on a gpu), but right now, you are lucky to get a GTX 1070 for that price. To enjoy VR, you need smooth high frame rates and some pixel pushing power to smooth the image to make up for the pixels per degree of view. I don't know if I would enjoy it as much if I had anything less than a GTX 1080 (though I understand the GTX 1070 is supposed to be ok).  I would get a 1080 Ti if I could afford it.

Another factor in going with an Oculus Rift is the PC needs three USB 3 ports for the head unit and two sensors as well as an HDMI output for the head unit. My two PCs have at least two USB 3 ports on the back and two USB 3 ports on the front, which is just enough for my purposes (I have all my USB controls connected to a USB 3 hub).

Aside from the cost of a powerful GPU, VR is in many ways a better buy than TrackIR. When you buy an Oculus Rift with the touch controllers for $400 (it was on sale for $350 over Christmas!), you are getting a very high resolution dual display with a head tracking system way better than TrackIR, two sensors (one of the reasons the tracking is better), two controllers, and the software to tie it all together. What this tells me is that TrackIR had a virtual monopoly and therefore was able to put quite a profit margin into their pricing. It also tells me that demand for the Oculus Rift wasn't as high as hoped for and was facing serious competition since their price rolled down so much so fast.

Hopefully, competition and tech advances will continue to reduce the costs of VR and increase the quality. The real limit is cpu/gpu throughput so that the resolution can be drastically improved. But for now, if you have a tight budget, a TrackIR and a GTX 1060 is a lot cheaper than a VR setup and a GTX 1070/1080.

Looking at current gpu pricing/availability, it has only gotten worse! Everything is sold out or selling for over $900. Bitcoin mining needs to go away 

[SpinDoc1]

EXCELLENT feedback streakeagle, I am now WAY more excited for VR. Methinks I will build a Rift setup :-)

[Randy1]

Having two skin cancers areas removed on my forehead has forced me back to Trackir from VR for a couple of weeks. I do prefer VR.

 VR is really good except for the dam dark that HTC has implemented with ah3.  VR is terrible during the dark and it seems to be dark 50% of the time.  Non VR users just leave the gamma cranked up all of the time to compensate but that is not an option in VR.  Hopefully someday HTC will go to just day light hours.  Even with the crappy dark play, I would recommend VR over tackir.

If you have to wear glasses beware of glasses scratching the glass inside the VR some have reported as a problem.

VR is really good in Iracing I should add if you are interested in car racing as well.





 

[Mister Fork]

The way I explain it to my friends VR in AH3 is like wearing historically correct aviation goggles for the period.

[SpinDoc1]

The way I explain it to my friends VR in AH3 is like wearing historically correct aviation goggles for the period.

That's actually pretty hilarious!

[germ]

I played TIR for about six years. Had my Rift for a few months and not once have I had any desire to play with TIR.

Everyone talks about the lower graphics quality, but to me, the improvement in immersion makes up for graphic quality by a factor of 10. Deflection shots, stall fighting, knife fights.. it's simply amazing.

When I was an TIR player, I mostly flew 51's and Dora's, all boom and zoom. Now, with VR, I'm flying older Spit's, KI61's and all manner of early war planes. Booming and zooming has become incredibly boring with VR. Not only am I now stall fighting and turn fighting, but my K/D ratio has gone way up.

Don't even bother with TIR.. get VR and a capable rig to drive it. You'll love it.

[FESS67]

I am the complete opposite.  I find TIR to be much better than VR.  I am home this weekend so will try VR again.

I find my SA in VR is very poor and visibilty behind the 3-9 line is difficult.

[1stpar3]

Plus you are a stickler for,"Immersion shouldnt need a hat switch". If I remember you correctly,Fess? Think that was a big issue you posted before? I have to agree, it does take more work with Vr. I tell  everyone this 1 thing, IF you have the system AND the extra funds....Go for it! If you are still on the fence....getting a TIR and waiting for the VR tech to improve, I would go that route. This is coming from a guy however, That LOVES the VR as is now. Its not for everyone, I grant you that. I have been total VR since well a year ago, hit Aces and Kicker on Video Poker last year on my trip to Vegas I cant hardly play with TIR anymore, just too diffrent. If you have never tried TIR, as like me when I got mine HOLY CRAP...it will BLOW YOUR MIND So telling folk to not rush into VR, sets well on my conscience. Hope that makes sense As too my feelings on VR, Germ nailed...wait GERM and I have exactly same symptoms? Yes, Sir, I do. 100% it took the game to way higher level. Think its the fuller picture of surroundings with VR? Closure rates are easier to judge and getting in close is alot easier. I have turned my gun convergence WAY DOWN, because of this! Only thing I dont like, is Tanking in VR. I can Wirb all day long, but planes are easy to track in wirb. In tanks...its just too hard to get as good a sight picture as in Non VR. Hard to stabilize head movements, thus hard to focus on sight and aiming. AH however has made this pretty much a non factor as far as game play goes. We now have an "Auto Swap Mode" in game Meaning to tank, for me, just remove headset and game play reverts to your 2d monitor. Cant use TIR but hat switches are fine with me, as I rarely find myself in a tank.

[SpinDoc1]

...Don't even bother with TIR.. get VR and a capable rig to drive it. You'll love it.

That's quite a ringing endorsement! Thanks for the reply, I think I may have to just go straight VR now!!! 

[FESS67]

I flew 90 minutes in VR today.  Go owned all over the place.  Went back to TIR and suddenly I can fly  lol

I will say this, the feel and immersion of VR is amazing.  Gunnery is much easier but for the life of me I cannot track bogies the way I can with TIR.