I Should've listened to Rip.

[Vulcan]

Our mission wasn't even marginal - it was way off the ball.

If we had have made it to our assigned target it would have been gliding.

The point here is 'just do what you feel like if you can't make your target'. This is TOD. Its supposed to be planned, historical etc. If I wanted to 'use my iniative to hit what I feel like' - I'd stick to the MA. And, I don't know who planned our mission, it was planned very very badly.

I'd also like the CMs to check what the fuel multiplier was, our Hellcats (not a secret, already pointed out in another thread) barely covered 150miles before running dry.

p.s. <S> to Mrpluto for doing the best he could after being dropped no less than chin deep in brown sticky crap.

[hblair]

I think the stink was over making this thing public. You guys just don't know the hard work these guys on the multiframe team do, and when someone gets ticked and airs laundry in public, well, it just gets nasty. It's not like they're getting paid a dime to do this thing, or like they want to see you guys fail, people make mistakes.

My squads missions haven't been cakewalks. We were assigned to sink your CV with JU88's, in a torpedo run  . We lost a couple of pilots, but your CV and cruiser are sitting on the bottom of the bay.  

Anyways, too bad you guys didn't show up. The allies really got reemed. Hope Rip takes a deep breath and comes back. He's a good guy from what I hear, hope it all gets worked out...

[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: hblair ]

[rosco-]

I would just absolutly love for Rip and Vulcan to plan, organise and execute the next tod for us. Ive yet to participate in any event that ran perfectly smooth with no  glitches. I bet they could pull it off for us.

[Sancho]

yep, we sure missed having all the MAG33 bubbas in there tonight.  Japs outnumbered US pretty badly.  I hope all involved can find a more constructive way of dealing with mission problems ahead of time.

Allies are supposed to "Clear the Philippines" when it's all said and done, but if the rest of the frames go like this, we Japanese may be invading California very soon!!  

--------------------

Sancho
XO 63rd Sentai, IJAAF

[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Sancho ]

[Vulcan]

Speaking for myself, I'd agree I'm no gun at scenario/mission building (in fact it'd be fair to say I suck). But when it comes to Ripsnort his attention to detail in missions etc is a long way above average and I know he'd do a damn good job.

Fair enough, the scenario guys do a steep job and a lot of us get a lot of fun out of their hard work. However, this run for Mag-33 was not even "a whoops it was marginal" (like we had one in Hostile Shores where most of us were 20 miles short of the CV - no complaints there, we missed by a whisker). But this was so far out of the ballpark you yanks would've been playing cricket.

There is a difference between a "glitch" and a complete clusterf**k you know.

Hopefully we will learn from this and move on.

 

Originally posted by rosco-:
I would just absolutly love for Rip and Vulcan to plan, organise and execute the next tod for us. Ive yet to participate in any event that ran perfectly smooth with no  glitches. I bet they could pull it off for us.

[snafu]

Originally posted by hblair:
Anyways, too bad you guys didn't show up

 (See Below)
 

Just to point out 8 us us did show which is not a bad turnout considering we knew it was a one way trip (Or perhaps not even that).

 I'm not even going to start to get involved in the "Rattles being thrown out of the pram" events leading up to this. The MAG formation stuck close together during the whole flight and continued on towards the target way after the point of no return. It was only when it became apparent that some if not all would not even reach the primary target that a secondary target was selected. Even then only about 75% of us made it I believe.

For my part I would like clarification on the Ditch/Death rulings on this. I hit the BH with both bombs, The next pilot through reports the BH down, but during the climbout lost most of one wing and took an engine oil hit from the ack. We had a report that CV15 had been sunk so I trimmed as best I could and headed in the general direction of friendly shores. the fuel ran out before the oil and I ditched West of P34. Bhorse also ditched very close by and between us we built a small boat from the remains of out Hellcats and made sails from our chutes, we then headed for home under the stiff southerly breeze and were picked up in friendly waters by a Catalina several hours later.  

Did I die? was our mission a success? Forgive me if the answers are in the rules somewhere but I cannot find clarification.

Despite it all I was great flying with the brothers, excellent Job MRPLUTO, Good leadership under difficult conditions <S> guys, looking forward to flying with you all next time.

TTFN
snafu

[Hening]

A big <S> to the pilots that flew escort for the 416RCAF.  We managed to reach and hit our target due to some hard flying and sacrifice.  Another big <S> to the gunners that added to the success of our mission.

So sorry, IJN.  Looks like a port has gone missing.

Thank F/L Buzzbe for a well planned mission in the face of tough odds <S>

Also, thank you to all the U.S. squads that gave this frame their maximum effort against very tough odds, low fuel and impossible distances.  Telling you to use your initiative was really all I could do as your C/O when we were faced with the situation at hand.  You done good <S>

"War is hell"

[hblair]

Out of pure interest, where did you guys take off, and where was your primary target?

[Buzzbe]

Hola,

416 RCAF "The Lynx" launched from TG18 North of Mindanao.

Due to excellent Escort (Yeager, Beemer, Voss and crew, many thanks) we reached our Target (Port on East side of Mindanao) with minor contact and all Avenger's intact on our bomb run.

Things went bad in a hurry, Holder had a mechanical failure during this phase and disco'd. Our escort had the Zeke's tied up, but for some reason twelve Zeke's were camping over the target.

It got messy at this point. We did hit the target and destroy the dock, but Firewall and myself went down due to fighters over the Port ( I was 3 seconds from pickling bomb's when hit).

Arena values were off, 62 IJN to 36 Allied. If we had parity, it would have been much better contested.

Again, to all the folk's with Yeager who coordinated Escort a big thanks from "The Lynx".


 

Originally posted by hblair:
Out of pure interest, where did you guys take off, and where was your primary target?

[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Buzzbe ]

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Buzzbe:
Hola,

416 RCAF "The Lynx" launched from TG18 North of Mindanao.

Due to excellent Escort (Yeager, Beemer, Voss and crew, many thanks) we reached our Target (Port on East side of Mindanao) with minor contact and all Avenger's intact on our bomb run.

Things went bad in a hurry, Holder had a mechanical failure during this phase and disco'd. Our escort had the Zeke's tied up, but for some reason twelve Zeke's were camping over the target.

It got messy at this point. We did hit the target and destroy the dock, but Firewall and myself went down due to fighters over the Port ( I was 3 seconds from pickling bomb's when hit).

Arena values were off, 62 IJN to 36 Allied. If we had parity, it would have been much better contested.

Again, to all the folk's with Yeager who coordinated Escort a big thanks from "The Lynx".


 

[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Buzzbe ]

were they all zekes or did you you see some KI61's? I dont know if it was your group but I had  a gruop of 4 KI61's that killed 3 tbm's and 1 corsair.

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by hblair:
Out of pure interest, where did you guys take off, and where was your primary target?

CV15 to A33

[Holder]

Ammo, there were only 4 TBMs that launched, I discoed 2 minutes from the port, so your group nailed the rest of 416 RCAF.

Please see my posts elsewhere (Clearing the Air) about the design of this frame. Hening as frame CO sent out what he received to the rest of us in 416 RCAF to discuss it. But there wasn't much to discuss, it was already planned. I would rather have been given a list of targets and been left to come up with a plan on our own.

I ain't whining here, 416 RCAF and the Corsairs of our escort group had a tough mission, but it was do-able. I don't mind losing aircraft because we were intercepted by enemies. Losing aircraft because you run out of fuel on the way to the target isn't good. Please, for future ToDs let the frame COs come up with the design.

[Buzzbe]

Originally posted by -ammo-:


were they all zekes or did you you see some KI61's? I dont know if it was your group but I had  a gruop of 4 KI61's that killed 3 tbm's and 1 corsair.

I only saw Zeke's, but Hening reported the Ki-61 kill.

It's very possible I just did not see them (Ki-61's), if the intercept happened at any other point it might have been different. I had just jumped to Aiming Position when I heard the Pings and I did not make it back to the Pilot position.

Hening was screaming like a girl   on the radio about Zeke's all over the place, should have listened to him.

[Buzzbe]

Originally posted by -ammo-:


were they all zekes or did you you see some KI61's? I dont know if it was your group but I had  a gruop of 4 KI61's that killed 3 tbm's and 1 corsair.

Hmm,

We lost one Avenger to a Disco, two to fighters and one landed the mission.

This all happened at P55.

[Fatty]

If the disco was during combat, the FE view of a disco is an explosion, so would explain the difference.