Concentration of Force - CO Note

[funkedup]

There are some mega-squads in TOD with 15-20 planes in one formation.  I've had my 4-6 ship squadron wiped out a couple of times by such squadrons.  

A good way to prevent this is to put multiple small squadrons together into one unit.  For fighters I think 8-12 is the minimum size to have a chance against the mega-squads.

To make multiple squadrons act as a unit, it is not sufficient to just tell the squadrons to go to the same target or patrol the same area.  The CO needs to make one of the squadron leaders the commander of the unit and subordinate the other squadron leader(s) to be flight leads in the unit.

Real fighter units did not have a half dozen independent flights operating all over the place with no chain of command.  They had group leaders who commanded multiple squadrons, squadron leaders who commanded multiple flights, flight leaders who commanded multiple elements, and element leaders who commanded their wingmen.  

This arrangement did not come about by chance or because people were anal retentive.  It came about through hard lessons learned in battle.  The more attention we pay to these lessons, the better our performance will be in TOD.

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[daddog]

Good post.

[Ripsnort]

FYI: MAG-33 is already 2 separate flights, usually we have 1 flight of 6-8 and another flight that is strictly heavy for the target (approx. 6-8).

[Blue Mako]

<S> Funked for a well thought out post.

I would like to raise a point from a different direction.  I think that concentrating force as ou suggest will lead to the TOD descending into a big furball, both sides just upping a big wave of fighters to slug it out.  I was a bit worried that this might be the way it's headed after the Allies put up La5's only in the second Black Sea frame.  While using your best aircraft exclusively in large numbers is a good way to knock out enemy aircraft, diversity and tactics are the things drawing me to the TOD.  Only seeing one enemy aircraft type all frame and having these just try to overwhelm the opposition with numbers is to me a bit of a disappointment.

And while I agree that using one large force to accomplish a given objective works well, maybe we can spread the action out a bit more compared to last frame (as it was in other TOD's before) so that it gives a better chance for tactics to come into play, rather than just overwhelming the opposition with sheer numbers.  I can get that in the MA any time.

Anyway, just my ramblings...  Keep the TOD's evolving guys, I look forward to the ride.

[funkedup]

At one point I could have sworn we had a rule saying no more than 2 squads could be sent after a single target.

I think the reintroduction of that rule, and changing "2 squads" to "24 aircraft" would achieve what Mako is talking about.

My point though, is that Frame COs should make sure that we have a realistic minimum unit size (e.g. 12 planes in a squadron) and a chain of command instead of independent flights all reporting to central command.

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[daddog]

We have about 17 squads in the Friday TOD, about 8 squad per side.

With three objectives and three targets to protect that is something for 6 squads to do. That leaves 2 squads per side to "pump it up" offensive or defensively as the Frame C.O. sees fit.

I do remind the Frame C.O.’s to attack all three objectives and to defend the three potential targets.  I don’t want to restrict the number of AC a Frame C.O. would assign to the Primary, Secondary, or Alternate objectives. Or how many they want to CAP what they want to protect. Sometimes we will have a squad with 4 pilots engage a squad with 14, but that can't be helped. I don't think it is the norm, but it is something we all will experience.

[funkedup]

Sometimes we will have a squad with 4 pilots engage a squad with 14, but that can't be helped.

It can be helped.  As long as squads meet their registered numbers, the Frame CO can prevent it from happening.  That's what I'm advocating in this thread.

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[Blue Mako]

Just another thought, going back to my experience from Clearing the Phillipines.

During the first frame the 412th were tasked with bombing the ports.  To accomplish this, we were flying F4U-1D's with bombs and rockets.  We had no escort so Tango and myself were assigned as high cover.  We dropped our ordinance and climbed to a position about 5k above the rest of the squadron.

Thus we had 2 fighters covering 6 attack aircraft.  Just before we reached the target, Tango and I engaged 6 enemy Ki61s.  Tango and I kept the fighters busy while the attack aircraft made their run and egressed.  The enemy Ki61s were so busy trying to kill the two of us that they completely ignored the rest of the flight.

The moral of the story is that because Tango and I did not press for kills but just kept the enemy busy, we were able to cover the rest of the squadron.  Against 3 to 1 odds we kept the initiative and then were able to disengage and rtb without receiving any damage.  Why?  Because we weren't as interested in getting kills as in getting the mission done.

If the escorts aren't pressing for fighter-fighter kills then a small force can keep a larger one at bay by flying smart and not giving away any advantage to get a kill.  This will then allow the attack aircraft to get to their target and accomplish the mission.

My point is that you can defeat the enemy effectively by flying smart rather than relying on numbers or flying for kills.

[funkedup]

It's pretty easy if your plane is 50 mph faster than the enemy.  

But Mako is right.  Every fight doesn't have to be a fight to the death.  Try teaching that to some of these guys though...

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[sling322]

Heya Funky...its off topic, but did you get my private message?

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by funkedup:
It's pretty easy if your plane is 50 mph faster than the enemy.    

Shhhhh!  You'll make my story seem cheap.  

You are right, it is easier if you are faster but then if we'd tried to turn just for a second or two then those ki's would have been all over us...

[Raubvogel]

The Allies flew nothing but La5s last frame?

[Blue Mako]

Yup, Sax confirmed it after the mass dump.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by funkedup:


It can be helped.  As long as squads meet their registered numbers, the Frame CO can prevent it from happening.  That's what I'm advocating in this thread.

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Easier said than done geting your registered numbers to attend.

[daddog]

It can be helped. As long as squads meet their registered numbers, the Frame CO can prevent it from happening. That's what I'm advocating in this thread.

Funked how can two Frame C.O.'s who do not see each others plans insure that equal number pilots will be attacking and defending the same targets? That is what I am talking about. Again at times you will have a squad of 4 (registered) vs a squad of 11 (registered). There is nothing you can do about that.

If any of you have problems with pilots showing up then lower your registered numbers. We can balance the TOD before it starts, but once the Frame C.O.'s have the objectives there is no telling what squads (large or small) will attack or defend targets.