Author Topic: Carrying capacity of the Earth  (Read 15734 times)

Offline ghi

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #165 on: July 26, 2018, 11:59:02 PM »
The problem with nuclear plants is that its hard to convince anyone to have them as neighbour and when things go bad it goes really bad.

  Yep, makes large areas uninhabitable for decades.  Split the atom to boil water, what a deal ; still a steam engine.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #166 on: July 27, 2018, 12:52:50 AM »
Why not magnetic motors? They could spin for years.  No crazy tech needed. Easier to repair. No waste. No runoff. Safe. Doesn't ruin the scenery. Perpetual motion. That's the way.

Then you need something to power them with..
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2018, 03:42:44 AM »
The OP was about the population of life being sustained by Earth.  Is electricity that valuable to plant and animal life?  That seems where this conversation is been driven to.
Chuck Norris can pick oranges from an apple tree and make the best lemonade in the world. Every morning when you wake up, swallow a live toad. Nothing worse can happen to you for the rest of the day. They say money can't buy happiness. I would like the opportunity to find out. Why be serious?

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #168 on: July 27, 2018, 06:44:32 AM »
<snip>
"PV [photo-voltaic] solar panels convert solar energy to electrical energy at an efficiency factor of about 15%.  Thus, our panel [one square meter in size], at the equator, year-round, should deliver 25.5 watts of electrical energy – one very dim light bulb."

Secondly, I highly doubt this plant powers an entire town but let's say it does...    What's the cost?   This is not a market-driven solution.  This is a highly subsidized endeavor where you are spending $500 to save $40.   

You made precisely my point, btw, on batteries.    We have nowhere near the battery technology to make this stuff even remotely efficient.   Pie in the sky dreams of solar power replacing oil are just that.  Dreams.   It's not a global solution for energy, and I seriously doubt it ever will be.    Regionally, of limited use or to augment the grid?  Sure.   If they can ever figure out how to tie it in efficiently.   We are a long way from that.
<snip>

And again, you are talking about solar PANELS.  The solar power plants DO NOT use panels.  Solar panels are a very inefficient way to generate electricity, but they are low maintenance.  Solar plants,  focus the energy of the Sun to a heat exchanger (usually containing molten salt) which then turns water to steam to power the generators.  There are examples of this all over the world being used everyday.

We drove through that town and stopped and had lunch.  Many of the people there work at the plant and are very happy to talk about the project.  The kw/h costs is on par with what we pay in Texas for power.  If you fly over that plant, you cannot miss the town.  They are both out in the middle of nowhere.

The big problems with plants like this is they require a lot of Sun and heat.  They are very poor generators in cold climates as they bleed off the heat stored too quickly.  They work best in desert applications.  The primary maintenance item is the heat exchanger.


As far as batteries go.  There is a battery energy storage plant outside Los Angeles which can power 15,000 homes for about 4 hours.

There is also Tesla's Powerwall which is for individual homes.

Stop thinking in terms of a central power generation system and think local, block level power generation.  A lot of things become viable then.


And again, I am not saying any of this is the best solution.  I think fusion is the best we will be able to get and should be focusing in that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 06:35:15 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #169 on: July 27, 2018, 07:58:41 AM »
There are plenty of solar power plants using panels. The largest is at 850 MW. And the solar star plants in California produces around 1600 GWh annualy.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #170 on: July 27, 2018, 08:58:33 AM »
I was heavily into nuclear fission for awhile. I never caught one and lost a lot of hooks.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #171 on: July 27, 2018, 10:45:06 AM »
There are plenty of solar power plants using panels. The largest is at 850 MW. And the solar star plants in California produces around 1600 GWh annualy.

I was aware of any solar power plants using panels, other than for augmentation.  I'll do some reading.  Thanks Zimmie.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #172 on: July 27, 2018, 10:59:19 AM »
Photovoltaic solar plants require a lot of land to produce eny larger amount of electricity, but the most ideal land is a desert so it wont compete with anything else about the land since deserts are pretty much useless otherwise. And once the panels are installed the power plant is more or less maintenance free and has very low running costs. The drawbacks is of course  that they only produce electricity in daylight so another source of electricity is still needed. But most of our electricity is consumed during the day so solar can still covers most of our needs with for ex hydro or nuclear as compliment.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #173 on: July 27, 2018, 02:02:02 PM »
Then you need something to power them with..

??? The magnetic parts are what powers them. The fan gets pushed by the magnets. The only thing you need is something to start them, which doesn't need much but the installer to get it going. Once it gets going. It will run forever, or until it needs maintenance.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #174 on: July 27, 2018, 02:12:10 PM »
I wish it was that simple.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #175 on: July 27, 2018, 09:11:27 PM »
I wish it was that simple.

Could you not place a lock on the spinner after you set it in place? Once you install it, "pull the pin", and off it goes.
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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #176 on: July 28, 2018, 04:39:37 PM »
I can confirm that there are a few solar panel power plants.  However, I don't know if the energy to build them is ever recaptured during the lifetime of the plant.  It wasn't with the efficiencies I saw.  Believe it or not, the same goes for wind turbines.  Takes more energy to make them (at least it did) than they ever recapture.
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #177 on: July 29, 2018, 06:09:32 AM »
The cost of making and maintaining wind turbines pretty much insures they are not going to be competitive with other forms of electrical generation.

I know the ones in West Texas had about 1/3 opf them shut down.  They say it is cheaper to install a new one than to fix the broken ones.  I doubt that it true, but there are a lot of dead ones out there.
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #178 on: July 29, 2018, 02:02:30 PM »
Plus they ruin the scenery. I saw a bunch in California on my way to Indian Wells and wasn't impressed.

I feel like giant turbines sucking the air down through tunnels using a magnetic motor turbine would be a lot a cheaper and more efficient.
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Offline Ramesis

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Re: Carrying capacity of the Earth
« Reply #179 on: July 29, 2018, 04:52:05 PM »
I realize I have not studied Physics since college... but at that time,
perpetual motion was not achievable... in terms of magnetism...
even cryogenic magnets don't maintain their magnetic field for forever  :furious
Liquid helium boils off eventually
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