Carrying capacity of the Earth

[Vraciu]

Just one small observation that most animal populations are upper-limitted to the food supply. With Homo Sapiens it is abstracted by one layer to energy supply because they are inherently tool-users. The population expansion is directly related to the use of first coal and now oil. Both of those were deposited over VERY long periods and modern humans use them up at a very rapid rate. That's why sustainable energy will find the balance for modern humans. Right now it's probably a bit artificially high.


Note to self: count how many AH forum users are triggered by the word sustainable 

Sustainable is mythology.   The only thing that is sustainable is Nuclear (and possibly hydro).     Hopefully we will learn how to recycle it.  Solar and wind are basically gimmicks to buy off donors.

The earth is actually producing oil at a rate faster than we use it--and we've barely found even a fraction of what exists now.  The sun will explode before we run out.

[nrshida]

Well I shan't try to convince you otherwise merely suggest those ideas are not widely accepted outside of your specific culture & motivation for holding those beliefs. Probably best just to agree to disagree on this point 

[DmonSlyr]

Ask California how they are liking their "sustainable" solar and wind that melts and breaks in the high heat. Millions told to turn off everything in their houses lmao. Solar and wind also take up large acreage of land. Thus "hurting" the environment. They also cost a lot to repair.

We couldn't have energy that cost almost nothing. We could have quick airiel transportation that could take people 100 miles in minutes. We have billions of uninhabitatable acres that have yet to be lived on because of transportation.

They have slowed down the spread of society by using larger cities to force state policies that hurt smaller rural areas and forces them into the city to work for wages.

[Vraciu]

Well I shan't try to convince you otherwise merely suggest those ideas are not widely accepted outside of your specific culture & motivation for holding those beliefs. Probably best just to agree to disagree on this point 

Which is fine by me.  More for us. 

I prefer being the lead dog not the ones behind it. 

It wasn’t “widely accepted” the USA could get to 3% GDP (as we edge toward 5%).    “Experts.”  LMAO.

As for sustainable energy pipe dreams, if it sounds too good to be true it is.

[Shuffler]

Ask California how they are liking their "sustainable" solar and wind that melts and breaks in the high heat. Millions told to turn off everything in their houses lmao. Solar and wind also take up large acreage of land. Thus "hurting" the environment. They also cost a lot to repair.

Texas is doing pretty well with wind generation. West Texas is loaded with wind generators.

[Vraciu]

Texas is doing pretty well with wind generation. West Texas is loaded with wind generators.

They’re a scam. 

I hate the things.  Clutter up beautiful views.

It’s a payment transfer that’s all it is.  I have friends in that industry and they say it’s a joke.  Heavily subsidized. 

[1stpar3]

They’re a scam. 

I hate the things.  Clutter up beautiful views.

It’s a payment transfer that’s all it is.  I have friends in that industry and they say it’s a joke.  Heavily subsidized.

Like CARBON offsets...doesnt matter how hard you are on the environment IF you have enough Grease to apply to the skids. Nature has its way of cleaning itself...City Living was the thing to do back in Dark Ages too. Cohabitation for safety...worked fine until sanity became an issue. You can only dump SO MANY bed pans out the window until it seeps into your water system. Not to mention the rats and the fleas they brought with them.....NOPE give me Home on the Range any day.....as long as It has descent Internet This game COULD be the death of me after all and just because I get NO EXERCISE

[Brooke]

Oil isn't going to run out any time soon.

Nevertheless, eventually, solar will be cheap and plentiful.

Between now than then (and even after then), nuclear could be a great power source if idiots wouldn't keep messing it  up.

[Vraciu]

See Rule #14

[Brooke]

Agreed on all points except that solar can never replace petroleum.   It's absolutely impossible, even if you covered every inch of the planet with solar panels, there is simply not enough energy to run much of anything.

Yep, you'd need to have a solar array perhaps impractically large -- maybe the size of Nevada or  something for the US -- but it isn't the size of the whole country.

Here's my group mate from grad school giving a TED talk on just this topic, explaining how for the UK (which has no deserts), it would be a solar array about 25% the size of the country:
https://youtu.be/E0W1ZZYIV8o?t=549

Space-based solar power might be able to add appreciably.

In the far future, there is the Dyson sphere. 

But, I think nuclear is a good way to go -- if people could quit making very stupid design, operation, and policy decisions about it.  Safety concerns and disposal of fuel are straightforward to deal with.  We just have a legacy in the world of crap designs and bad decisions that set things down a bad path that is hard to reverse.

[Vraciu]

Yep, you'd need to have a solar array perhaps impractically large -- maybe the size of Nevada or  something for the US -- but it isn't the size of the whole country.

Here's my group mate from grad school giving a TED talk on just this topic, explaining how for the UK (which has no deserts), it would be a solar array about 25% the size of the country:
https://youtu.be/E0W1ZZYIV8o?t=549

Space-based solar power might be able to add appreciably.

In the far future, there is the Dyson sphere. 

But, I think nuclear is a good way to go -- if people could quit making very stupid design, operation, and policy decisions about it.  Safety concerns and disposal of fuel are straightforward to deal with.  We just have a legacy in the world of crap designs and bad decisions that set things down a bad path that is hard to reverse.

I saw another science guy give a talk on it.   Debris free, 0% cloud cover, directed at the sun...  You'd maybe get 1% of the energy we need if you covered the whole planet.  Something ridiculous like that.

You can basically power a light bulb with these massive things, meanwhile you are frying birds, causing pilots to go blind (literally, these things out in Nevada are HORRIFIC to fly past), etc.

Would love to see a way to recycle nuclear waste though.  Man that would be something.

[Brooke]

Would love to see a way to recycle nuclear waste though.  Man that would be something.

There is -- those are breeder reactors.  But one downside is that they can (and are) used to make bomb-grade material, so the US isn't so keen on lots of places having them.

[zack1234]

Well I shan't try to convince you otherwise merely suggest those ideas are not widely accepted outside of your specific culture & motivation for holding those beliefs. Probably best just to agree to disagree on this point 

How dare you! I demand satisfaction 

[Vraciu]

There is -- those are breeder reactors.  But one downside is that they can (and are) used to make bomb-grade material, so the US isn't so keen on lots of places having them.

Darn.

Well, we could always just sink the waste in the Marianas Trench and wait for Godzilla to emerge...   

[Brooke]

Well, we could always just sink the waste in the Marianas Trench and wait for Godzilla to emerge...   

Actually, it is a good idea!    Folks have proposed burying waste in subduction zones, and it goes back into the earth.