The Worst FSO that has ever came to be

[STXAce8]

It was pretty bad.....discuss

[FESS67]

I do not bother with FSo.  Tried 3 times and they were all total crap

[STXAce8]

I do not bother with FSo.  Tried 3 times and they were all total crap

Well that was a worthless response, lets just forget about this one and continue on about why this specific setup blows.

[STXAce8]

Lets start with a step towards less suck, how about not having a 7 sector flight to the fight, and maybe even some drop tanks so if the axis survive the already unbalanced fight they can still make it home.

[j500ss]

When one side is purely defensive, it can get pretty ugly.  With only 1 target to defend, it can get pretty ugly.

Side split was NO WHERE near what designer intended.  Allied had almost a 20 man advantage going in, the design called for a 52 / 48 split in favor of the Axis.   It probably should have been more of a 60 / 40.   

Last night was our first frame back in FSO after a couple months off.   

Once the enemy buffs were reported it was like a scene out of Finding Nemo.  Too many had a " MINE" mindset.

To watch squads from our south fly north thru our patrol area vs wait for the battle to develop so maybe everyone could get involved was just "stunning " to say the least.  We saw ZERO enemy planes last night within icon range.  Buffs were eliminated at least a full sector to our north, and our orders had us patrolling a full sector north of the target. 

The frame overall was a double ugly, and totally unimpressive from so many points of view sadly, and it goes way beyond the setup itself being the problem.

[Snork]

Let's not panic, gentlemen. There will occasionally be bad nights. Actually, the majority of missions flown back then were spent flying around not seeing any enemy. I prefer realism over hyper-action but this one was even too real for me. 

[Nefarious]

I had several squaddies say the exact same thing as this thread title before logging off in disgust.It was pretty rough as Betty Lead, all bombers lost in probably under 3-4 minutes, had a few sneak away but logs show no landings so...

Here's what I see, all easily repairable.

- Late Axis Orders, came out Friday afternoon. Great that others stepped up, but could have been completely avoidable. With our community could have easily had orders Thursday, Wednesday if someone asked. This helps let people know there is still FSO, Had a couple not know FSO was happening.

- Side split failure. What was supposed to be an Axis advantage was a 20 man disadvantage. I would personally move at least 11-15, maybe more, pilots to Axis side in this particular setup to, especially with G4Ms vs P-40Es and eventually Spit V's

- Distance to target combined with the fact we only had 1 target made it turkey shoot for Allies. Need at least two with assault style setups to split forces. Up Bomber requirement to 16 instead of 12, allowing for 8 formations per objective.

[perdue3]

- Distance to target combined with the fact we only had 1 target made it turkey shoot for Allies. Need at least two with assault style setups to split forces. Up Bomber requirement to 16 instead of 12, allowing for 8 formations per objective.

This is the one that should be addressed.

As you very well know Nef, a designer's nightmare is side splits being off. Axis are supposed to have an advantage, that was far from the case last night. That is out of the designer's hands. The disadvantage only exacerbated the problem.

It takes 50 mins to fly from A50 to Rabat. There is a climb to 18k included. That leaves 10 mins, which is roughly 25 miles of deviation from direct to play with. The Allies, if they knew this, merely had to fly North until they found us. Devil and I both agreed that 0 bombers would make it to target if we adhered to the T+60 rule. It just isn't possible because the Allies know where we are 3 sectors before we get to target. Even if the escorts do an outstanding job, it is only a matter of time before we lose all the bombers. I believe that problem is rectified if the flight distance is cut down by at least two sectors, ideally more.

[Spikes]

I had several squaddies say the exact same thing as this thread title before logging off in disgust.It was pretty rough as Betty Lead, all bombers lost in probably under 3-4 minutes, had a few sneak away but logs show no landings so...

Here's what I see, all easily repairable.

- Late Axis Orders, came out Friday afternoon. Great that others stepped up, but could have been completely avoidable. With our community could have easily had orders Thursday, Wednesday if someone asked. This helps let people know there is still FSO, Had a couple not know FSO was happening.

- Side split failure. What was supposed to be an Axis advantage was a 20 man disadvantage. I would personally move at least 11-15, maybe more, pilots to Axis side in this particular setup to, especially with G4Ms vs P-40Es and eventually Spit V's

- Distance to target combined with the fact we only had 1 target made it turkey shoot for Allies. Need at least two with assault style setups to split forces. Up Bomber requirement to 16 instead of 12, allowing for 8 formations per objective.

With the side splits, we faced this in August as well. One frame the Axis were down by ~20-25 people and it showed. It is just something that happens from time to time, ends up being a perfect storm of understaffed Axis squads and overstaffed Allied squads. I don't think a knee-jerk reaction is necessary or a good idea to start moving squads from one side to the other. It happened in one of three frames last month, it had me worried but ultimately it sort of worked itself out. Moving a large squad like that could cause a problem in Frame 2 if everyone on the Axis shows up.

Perd covered the distance issue very well. There was not much a CIC could do in terms of any sort of tactical plan without breaking the rules. Giving the Axis Tangier as a launch base would give some options to the CIC and Axis would be slightly less strapped for time.

/shrug

[DubiousKB]

That was a tough go.  to the drunken/angry Auzzies..... Seems like there were a few factors which conspired against the axis on this go. A perfect poo-storm if you will.

Too bad it's not easier to add air-spawns to maps for setup purposes. And it seemed the visuals were all out of whack, first 20min i felt like we'd end up in space the world below was so tiny...

Not easy to have all this stuff setup, and CM's/CiCs or whatever other letters do the leg-work, i salute you!

There's already some decent suggestions, you guys will figure it out. 

[Snork]

Why no carriers? The attack on Darwin started with carrier borne Zeros followed by level bombers. That would seem to alleviate a lot of the problem. I know from the overstaffed allies viewpoint it was no fun flying a pattern for an hour plus with no red icons ever over a route that no enemy could use due to the time/distance issue. 

[LilMak]

Seems most of the “Pacific” setups are bad for the Axis. Feels like it’s always been that way. Sure we can put some mitigations in place, but I don’t know if that’ll change much.

Side note: Might be fun to do a kamikaze mission one time. Put the entire Japanese force in zeros with bombs. Put the Allies in late war stuff with the intent that it be a turkey shoot. If the Japanese get through to a fleet with a given number of planes, they win the frame. If the Allies shoot them all down, Axis lose.

[KCDitto]

I agree with Snork

Add the 3 carrier groups for the allies to contend with and that should lead to Bettys at least having a chance

It would also give wounded players a chance at a safe landing. I know some do not care, but some of us really try to LIVE through an event. Not that my burning Zero would have landed anyway 

[DubiousKB]

...
Side note: Might be fun to do a kamikaze mission one time. Put the entire Japanese force in zeros with bombs. Put the Allies in late war stuff with the intent that it be a turkey shoot. If the Japanese get through to a fleet with a given number of planes, they win the frame. If the Allies shoot them all down, Axis lose.

This might be exhilarating.... 

Worst part of FSO, the boring lead up to contact...
best part of FSO, the insane action after contact... 

[Nefarious]

With the side splits, we faced this in August as well. One frame the Axis were down by ~20-25 people and it showed. It is just something that happens from time to time, ends up being a perfect storm of understaffed Axis squads and overstaffed Allied squads. I don't think a knee-jerk reaction is necessary or a good idea to start moving squads from one side to the other. It happened in one of three frames last month, it had me worried but ultimately it sort of worked itself out. Moving a large squad like that could cause a problem in Frame 2 if everyone on the Axis shows up.

As you very well know Nef, a designer's nightmare is side splits being off. Axis are supposed to have an advantage, that was far from the case last night. That is out of the designer's hands. The disadvantage only exacerbated the problem.

Up the number of Axis and the number of Axis bombers, worst case scenario is you will have a larger than expected Axis advantage with a few additional bombers. This is by far the easiest defender setup in all of FSO, anything vs G4Ms.

The Allies appear to be 3 over their Max number, while the Axis are two over their minimum and had one Allied pilot lol. The 327th will probably only have 1-3 players this month per frame, so you're starting short from the get-go. A 7-10 or 11-15 squad to the Axis would be a good start.