Author Topic: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map  (Read 5140 times)

Offline caldera

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 01:03:53 PM »
"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline bustr

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2018, 02:14:23 PM »
I keep revisiting buzzsaw in respect to my experiences with the three terrains I've published. It's impractical to remove all the bases and start over with the terrain intact. What is practical and I'm assuming Waffle built this terrain, remove the three radar strats in the center and move them out to the edges of each territory. Remove all the GV spawns that went to each location. Replace the radar strats with small airfields, optional map room on the field or a town. Run spawns out from those small airfields to the surrounding vBases to make them prime real estate to own while being quick ACM action activity generators. There are no real organic places for the ACM crowd to quickly get at each other.

This terrain has a TT in the center, surrounded by three vbases and one spawn from each into it. No one has mega tank fights there since the whole essence of buzzsaw is cluttered and mildly convoluted. I wonder how many players even remember it's in the center of the map?

The terrain during peak time forces groups to get something done from the air while GVers have many more options for solo initiatives. Then in post peak times airfields are not conducive to flying out to find activity easily. Yes, adding in three airfields in the center would initiate a faster capturing of that real estate during peak time while getting it back during off peak would be a milk run. It may even facilitate flipping this terrain sooner. Another aid to flipping the map sooner would be to replace all but 3-4 medium and large airfields in each country with small airfields. This is why on my three terrains there is a preponderance of small airfields.

This would not require a radical rebuild of the map, only shifting existing objects around and swapping out one object type for another. I could do it in a weekend without altering the terrain design.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Ramesis

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2018, 03:10:59 PM »
I will trade the buzzsaw map, for the old trinity map.
+1
"Would you tell me, please,
 which way I ought to go from here?
 That depends a good deal on where
 you want to get to. Said the cat."
    Charles Lutwidge Dodgson a.k.a. Lewis Carroll

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2018, 03:25:34 PM »
I keep revisiting buzzsaw in respect to my experiences with the three terrains I've published. It's impractical to remove all the bases and start over with the terrain intact. What is practical and I'm assuming Waffle built this terrain, remove the three radar strats in the center and move them out to the edges of each territory. Remove all the GV spawns that went to each location. Replace the radar strats with small airfields, optional map room on the field or a town. Run spawns out from those small airfields to the surrounding vBases to make them prime real estate to own while being quick ACM action activity generators. There are no real organic places for the ACM crowd to quickly get at each other.

This terrain has a TT in the center, surrounded by three vbases and one spawn from each into it. No one has mega tank fights there since the whole essence of buzzsaw is cluttered and mildly convoluted. I wonder how many players even remember it's in the center of the map?

The terrain during peak time forces groups to get something done from the air while GVers have many more options for solo initiatives. Then in post peak times airfields are not conducive to flying out to find activity easily. Yes, adding in three airfields in the center would initiate a faster capturing of that real estate during peak time while getting it back during off peak would be a milk run. It may even facilitate flipping this terrain sooner. Another aid to flipping the map sooner would be to replace all but 3-4 medium and large airfields in each country with small airfields. This is why on my three terrains there is a preponderance of small airfields.

This would not require a radical rebuild of the map, only shifting existing objects around and swapping out one object type for another. I could do it in a weekend without altering the terrain design.

The reality is that the map just has no "flow" or "path to victory" If you will. Outside bases are hard to defend. The middle is just a circus. Back bases are too far everywhere. Most people don't realize that tank base is in the middle. It's just too combobulated while the outside is too spreadout and too tine consuming. I honestly think you'd just be wasting your time with these changes.
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Offline bustr

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2018, 03:29:37 PM »
So I didn't publish three terrains in the last two years? I have yet to play on one of yours.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2018, 03:43:51 PM »
So I didn't publish three terrains in the last two years? I have yet to play on one of yours.

#BrokenRecord

The reality is that the map just has no "flow" or "path to victory" If you will. Outside bases are hard to defend. The middle is just a circus. Back bases are too far everywhere. Most people don't realize that tank base is in the middle. It's just too combobulated while the outside is too spreadout and too tine consuming. I honestly think you'd just be wasting your time with these changes.

Fixing that map that had the messed up dar bars (Fester?) would be more productive.  That map kicked arse.
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Offline FESS67

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2018, 04:30:05 PM »
So I didn't publish three terrains in the last two years? I have yet to play on one of yours.

Hey bustr, you ever drive  POS car and tell your friends anout how bad it was?  How many cars you built?

So you made a map.  Well done.  It does not negate others opinions and you are not the worlds most knowledgeable authority on game mechanics.

Offline Arlo

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2018, 04:44:07 PM »
If this becomes a car thread then I'll listen to car gurus. Bustr's points weren't made to start a crotch-measuring fest. He's the most successful active terrain maker currently active (in spite of others suddenly showing interest). You'd think those who really give a damn about terrain play-ability would either include him in the discussion and take him seriously without getting their feelings hurt about that fact or put up their winning ideas as 'superior hot-rods' fully built and not endlessly theorized.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2018, 04:45:17 PM »
Hey bustr, you ever drive  POS car and tell your friends anout how bad it was?  How many cars you built?

So you made a map.  Well done.  It does not negate others opinions and you are not the worlds most knowledgeable authority on game mechanics.





 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :ahand

#Burn
”KILLER V”
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2018, 04:46:39 PM »
If this becomes a car thread then I'll listen to car gurus. Bustr's points weren't made to start a crotch-measuring fest. He's the most successful active terrain maker currently active (in spite of others suddenly showing interest). You'd think those who really give a damn about terrain play-ability would either include him in the discussion and take him seriously without getting their feelings hurt about that fact or put up their winning ideas as 'superior hot-rods' fully built and not endlessly theorized.


Well let's not set the bar too high now...    :rofl
”KILLER V”
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Offline Arlo

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2018, 04:49:02 PM »

Well let's not set the bar too high now...    :rofl

I'm not setting the bar. HT approves his terrains. Others talk about terrains. ;)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2018, 05:04:58 PM »
I'm not setting the bar. HT approves his terrains. Others talk about terrains. ;)

And others appear incapable of grasping the references presented. ;)

[And speaking of people who talk about terrains...   "You-know-you" (again, not you) talks about nothing else when he isn't finger pointing.  Perhaps if he spent less time banging a keyboard about it then it wouldn't take two years to make one.]
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 05:09:17 PM by Vraciu »
”KILLER V”
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Offline Arlo

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 05:09:04 PM »
And others are incapable of grasping the references presented. ;)

(And speaking of people who talk about terrains...   You-know-you talks about nothing else when he isn't finger pointing.)

A terrain designer that has actually submitted terrains that were approved for use in the MA discusses how he managed to do such on the AH forum. Imagine that. The horror. I hope that's simple enough to grasp.  :D

Offline Vraciu

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2018, 05:10:47 PM »
A terrain designer that has actually submitted terrains that were approved for use in the MA discusses how he managed to do such on the AH forum. Imagine that. The horror. I hope that's simple enough to grasp.  :D

I see, so chest-thumping, finger-pointing, and dumping on "ACM Sharks" is what you consider discussion.    No, sorry, that's not anything any rational person can grasp--beyond what it actually is.  :D
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King of the Hill Champ Tour 219 - Win Percentage 100
"1v1 Skyyr might be the best pilot ever to play the game." - Via PM, Name Redacted

Offline Arlo

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Re: For the love of AH please remove the Buzzsaw map
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 05:17:20 PM »
I see, so chest-thumping, finger-pointing, and dumping on "ACM Sharks" is what you consider discussion.    No, sorry, that's not anything any rational person can grasp--beyond what it actually is.  :D

You've no superior ground to stand on when it comes to reason or rational discussion, on this forum. Bustr has gone into great detail about terrain design. You and Shida didn't even bother, quite often, with such when you referenced Bustr (and it was specifically Bustr - and not his points). It's not that you can't grasp that. It's that you don't want to. I supported your skin work when you were at a particularly vulnerable point about it. I still do. Why not man up and acknowledge Bustr's contribution rather than play forum insult wars with him?