Its time to perk the Yak3 and La7

[Oldman731]

It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.

Good point.

- oldman

[save]

Bah yak3 

Its damage soaking ability is a myth. On many occasions I managed to hit it with a volley from quad hispanos and destroy its landing gear.

You hit the Yak3's propeller and it's rudder, of course the landing gear came off, it's between ! 

[DmonSlyr]

Planes that are extremely effective in furballing or fighter combat need to be lower ENY regardless if it has a lot of Ord or not. The majority of players play for air combat and fighting 6 Yak3s, 3 190Ds, and 4 La7s every fight just gets tiring. More of these planes causes more people to get in those planes to compete. The ENY for non perked planes should be veriable to the usuage of that tour. The more yak3s sorties, the lower ENY should go. The more La7 and 190D sorties, the lower ENY should go. This would created a little better balance on the fighter combat side. This is how non perked ENY planes should work. Just like ENY cost increases/decreases as the players #s change.   

[atlau]

It would be interesting to see an ENY to usage chart generated somewhere... would highlight the outliers...

Paging Snailman

[The Fugitive]

Maybe I need to recalibrate my understanding of language.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile

Does it have the guns to take down bombers conveniently? Does it carry ordance? Does it have the legs for long-range escort tasks?

It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.

Maybe a wish: Separate A2A-ENY (used to determine perks earned for a2a-kills, and other-ENY for all the rest (ENY-limiter). Furball-planes would earn less perks for shooting down planes that today get their low ENY from really being versatile. Maybe it's even easy: adjust ENY to pure a2a capability, and change the ENY-limiter to be an OBJ/ENY-limiter.

By versatile I meant as a fighter, seeing that is what the discussion is about. It climbs well, dives great, is fast, has great guns, tho a short clip, but with nose mounted gun easier to aim. It can go against any plane with out having  to worry about weaknesses. Plus it seems to be armored like a tank 

We are NOT talking about how many bombs it carries its high alt capabilities nor its bomber hunting skills as NOBODY uses it for any of these things. It is over used in the arenas, and the ENY may be a bit out of wack.

[ccvi]

Yes, it contains bombers, because those things fly in the air too 

Of course your correct, but I'm sure you know what I mean. Thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-in-the-air vs thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-on-the-ground. The share of bomber kills likely isn't equal for all planes, and probably comparatively low for the yak3. All the discussion evolves around the furball, so pure furball - numbers should be used as refrence.

Can you separate the data that way please?

[ccvi]

Planes that are extremely effective in furballing or fighter combat need to be lower ENY regardless if it has a lot of Ord or not.

This wish is not about the yak3 then, but a general wish to define ENY differently.

The majority of players play for air combat and fighting 6 Yak3s, 3 190Ds, and 4 La7s every fight just gets tiring.

Do you have numbers to prove that majority statement? Or Lusche maybe?  (Total time played in category... maybe?).
The typical plane numbers don't match up with Lusches chart. In a typical fight there's 6 ponies, 5 spit16, 4 doras, and each 3 ysk3/la7/niki. And about some 8 other fighters, plus a variety of bombers. The most effective way to increase variety would be to reduce the ENY of the pony (which can't go much lower, and which only is as low as it is because it can carry bombs), or perk it.

[Lusche]

Of course your correct, but I'm sure you know what I mean. Thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-in-the-air vs thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-on-the-ground. The share of bomber kills likely isn't equal for all planes, and probably comparatively low for the yak3. All the discussion evolves around the furball, so pure furball - numbers should be used as refrence.

Can you separate the data that way please?

Yes, I can

But allow me a general remark first. For a discussion about ENY and perking stuff like bomber kills should absolutely be included, because dogfighting and bomber killing are not separate. It's a war out there, and for ENY and PERK purposes a lot of things have to be taken into consideration (as you. CCVI, already mention earlier)

Here now the pure fighter vs fighter chart:





This year, the yak-3 is responsible for 5.94% of all fighter vs fighter kills.



As you can see, even when looking at fighter vs fighter isolated, the Yak-3 does not look any more dominating than other planes before. (If anything, the chart has become slightly more diverse compared to 2008). Seems like the Yak just became the new Nikki.




Oh, I overlooked one:

(Total time played in category... maybe?).

Currently players spend about 40% of their time in fighter mode, 15% in attack, 20% in bomber, 24% in vehicle (gun doesn't appear on the score sheet)

[DmonSlyr]

This wish is not about the yak3 then, but a general wish to define ENY differently.

Do you have numbers to prove that majority statement? Or Lusche maybe?  (Total time played in category... maybe?).
The typical plane numbers don't match up with Lusches chart. In a typical fight there's 6 ponies, 5 spit16, 4 doras, and each 3 ysk3/la7/niki. And about some 8 other fighters, plus a variety of bombers. The most effective way to increase variety would be to reduce the ENY of the pony (which can't go much lower, and which only is as low as it is because it can carry bombs), or perk it.

No. It's about making super planes less abundant in the MA. It's tiring. Trust me, I'm not the only one who feels this way. Too many snakes are bad for the environment. That's what you are seeing now with easy mode planes. I was just throwing out an idea that ENY for non perked planes should revolve around usage.

Overall K/D matters. Especially in the top fighters. The higher the K/D, the more effective the plane is at escaping the fights. Note how the Yak3 and 190D both have higher K/D's than the spit16 and P51? Why do you think that is? I know the answer but I'm curious if you do.

I actually think the Pony is fine at the ENY it is because it takes more patience to fly. The spit16, Yak3, and La7 should have a small perk. The 190D should be a 7 eny plane. There are too many of them and it creates lazy easy gameplay full of runners.

[caldera]

If you perk the Yak-3, Spit XVI and La-7, you have to include the P-51D. 

Would rather some of the ENY values get adjusted.

Plane / ENY:

262 / 2
163 / 3
Tempest / 3
F4U-4 / 4
F4U-C / 4
190D-9 / 6
Yak-3 / 7
F4U-1A / 9
Ki-84 / 14

[atlau]

I think the title should have been adjust eny and not perk it.

I wonder if the chog has such a high kd because its often used as a buff interceptor. As a fighter the 1a is significantly better imho. Chogs usually make for easy kills once you avoid the ho and they are kinda slow compared to most lw monsters.

[Lusche]

I wonder if the chog has such a high kd because its often used as a buff interceptor.

The last matrix I posted is showing stats vs other fighters exclusively and you can see that the F4U-C, while being the 'worst' performing perk plane, is still way ahead of it's unperked competition in terms of K/D

[atlau]

Do you think this is people will fly a perk plane more timidly than a "free" plane?

[Lusche]

Do you think this is people will fly a perk plane more timidly than a "free" plane?

Yes I do, to some extend. It also depends on the perk cost itself, 20(?) perks for a F4U-C are easily earned, the 200 for a Me 262 not so much.
But after all, the F4U-C IS a very dangerous opponent by all means, after all it was the plane which caused the perk system to be introduced in the first place.

[atlau]

Are the other perk planes cut off from your chart? (Too far to the right).

I have to wonder though was the chog introduced before the la7? Id still think that if it was not perked the la7 would be a better overall ma fighter killer simply due to its speed and climb advantage.