Late war Plane dillema

[bustr]

How much of this is an off hours problem?

POTW flies USA prime time and there really are no problems finding planes to fight during the USA window. And like Waystin pointed out, if we get tired of hit and runaway enough, we do something about it which is it's own fun.

[Vraciu]

See rule #2

[DmonSlyr]

But it is the style that you wish to change or these planes wouldn't be an issue. This game isn't a jousting match set up in front of the kings court, people are going to people regardless of the restrictions placed on aircraft.

I would recommend gathering video data to show the issue to Dale and see what he has to say about it. After all, video proof is way better than verbal proof and it will validate your position much better.

 

I can promise you the "style" didn't work out very well in the combat challenge the other night when allied P4711s and P38Gs couldnt so easily run from thr G6s and G2, you had to really make sure you had the speed and E before entering the furball as the BnZ P47s/38Gs could not out turn the 109s, It didn't work out so well for the less patient, thus the #s for the allied dropped to 5 vs 18 in the final 30 minutes. In the first hour, we had Hurricanes and spit5s vs the 109f, 110, and C202. The fight was much more balanced because all of these planes had relatively the same fighter ability.

Now, imagine If we had been using the P47M/38Ls vs the G6s and G2s. Then we would have all been able to run and not worry about getting tracked down after a dive. This is how the 190D is to most of the planes in the MA.

The CC is really a great representative of how planes react in a furball setting and which tactics work best for each plane to stay alive. Players cannot so easily just hit X and run, so it makes it fun for all players, even though it's a little more challenging for the allied as they normally started with alt and #s in the real war and did not want to furball down low. 

[Vraciu]

The main issue appears to be in agreeing if there is a problem or not.  Once that is defined then we can explore solutions.

I think there is a general shift to hit and run style flying.  Even with the same aircraft, say 51 v 51, the prevelance is to hit and run and to avoid marginal combat situations.  We see this in a mix of new and experienced players.  Late war planes feature heavily as they have top end speeds that suit the tactic.

For me it leads to boring game play.  For others it is how they stay alive and for them it is fun.

How do we make it fun for both sides of the argument?

I cancelled my sub on the weekend after chasing runners around for 90 minutes.  Just not fun for me.

Boo. 

[Ack-Ack]

I always thought putting an ENY score % in the ranks as a metric was a good idea. (Also taking out K/T for attack). This would slow players only being able to use 5 eny planes to achieve a high rank. This is a good idea because it doesn't "force someone to fly as you want them to" arguement. It doesn't keep people out of their precious. It means players who want to achieve a higher rank have to fly earlier and mid war planes. Is that something we could all agree on?

Why do you insist on wanting to force players what to fly?
You claim you don't but then put forth they must fly a certain era plane in order to increase score.

So no, we don't all agree in it because it is a bad idea and nothing more than your typical and predictable idea of trying to force players how you'd like them to fight and what to fly.

[bustr]

At least he is "trying" to get buy in, though too often today when someone makes the statement: Is that something we could all agree on? First thing you do is check your wallet then count your fingers, then your arms and legs. If he was being agreed with he would not need to resort to buy in 101 rhetoric.

[FLS]

In fighter mode, fine, your first point doesn't make sense though. In attack mode it makes little sense. Especially for the off hours. If I go Jabo a base with no one there, I am being penalized for not getting any kills in a quick amount of time when all I wanted to was attack a base. Why should kills/time even matter?

If K/T is eliminated then the person flying all day has an advantage over the person flying for one hour.

Currently if you don't get any kills while flying in attack mode your K/T goes down. The penalty is the effect on your attack ranking.

[DmonSlyr]

If K/T is eliminated then the person flying all day has an advantage over the person flying for one hour.

Currently if you don't get any kills while flying in attack mode your K/T goes down. The penalty is the effect on your attack ranking.

Which again, defeats the purpose of attack ranking.... Why would I want to attack a base with no enemies knowing it's going effect my score? Why should I have to get timed on kills for flying a Boston or TU2 to go attack a base, who cares how long they fly?

A person flying all day could still get 12 K/H and be #5 in that category where as a person flying for an hour could only get 1 or 2 kills and have a #400 rank, your understanding doesn't really address what I am talking about.

[DmonSlyr]

Why do you insist on wanting to force players what to fly?
You claim you don't but then put forth they must fly a certain era plane in order to increase score.

So no, we don't all agree in it because it is a bad idea and nothing more than your typical and predictable idea of trying to force players how you'd like them to fight and what to fly.

It's not forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to have a good score, you have to also fly lower eny planes. If you don't care about score than it doesn't matter does it?

It's just an incentive to get the better pilots in lower eny planes If they want to have a better rank. I don't see how that hurts anyone and it will bring another level of skill to the ranking.

[FLS]

Which again, defeats the purpose of attack ranking.... Why would I want to attack a base with no enemies knowing it's going effect my score? Why should I have to get timed on kills for flying a Boston or TU2 to go attack a base, who cares how long they fly?

A person flying all day could still get 12 K/H and be #5 in that category where as a person flying for an hour could only get 1 or 2 kills and have a #400 rank, your understanding doesn't really address what I am talking about.

A player getting 12 K/H all day should have a higher rank than a player getting 2 kills in an hour, assuming for discussion the other metrics are equal, so I'm missing your point.

Another thing to keep in mind is that nobody says everything is perfect. Nobody likes to see their target run away even though the target might enjoy it. The issue is not if there is a problem or if everyone can see the problem. The issue pushing back is the possibility of the cure being worse than the disease.

It's not forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to have a good score, you have to also fly lower eny planes. If you don't care about score than it doesn't matter does it?

It's just an incentive to get the better pilots in lower eny planes If they want to have a better rank. I don't see how that hurts anyone and it will bring another level of skill to the ranking.

As you said, the incentive would only be for people who care about rank. Is that the group who's behavior needs to change?

There is a group of pilots who BnZ in fast late war planes.

There is a group of pilots who care about score.

What's the overlap? Is it sufficient that incentives for the second group change the behavior of the first group?

[DmonSlyr]

See rule #4

[DmonSlyr]

See rule #5

[Vraciu]

See rule #4

[ACE]

See rule #14

[Arlo]

See rule #4

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