Author Topic: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).  (Read 5318 times)

Offline waystin2

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 07:20:34 AM »
The Pigs are a non-dedicated group.  The voting was hot this month. 8-7 Axis with lots of glorious taunting memes in the mix.  :D
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2019, 10:05:15 AM »
I just don't get it!   

Who runs FSO?   

"Moved rightfully to Axis"?   

It's been pretty obvious every time you balk about an issue you get what you want Devil.   However this time, I am sorry to say it comes across and total arrogance, that was my first thought this morning when I read the original side assignments post. Yea, I laughed my assets off, but at the same time I knew you would get your way.

Sadly FSO is about to the point where picking a ride and side preference is about useless.   Squire states no less than 11 of 18 squads REQUESTED AXIS.    What does that tell you?  You have to know why that is.....  I am pretty sure most do, Perd does apparently.

Now how about the 412th,  they got switched around after specifically requesting AXIS initially,  and your reply to Nef's post in the other thread made ZERO sense, it came across as you chastising him and about  updating rides and side pref, when according to Nef,  that was exactly what he did to begin with.

With what seems to be more and more DEDICATED squads involved in FSO, or maybe it's less non dedicated squads,  you have to realize that it leaves squads with little ability to get their preference anymore. They could beg for it, but that doesn't mean they are going to get it.  So maybe in a way, you just showed us all how to overcome that issue.... DEMAND!!

The upcoming setups for May, June, and July  have P-40 and B-25 written all over them. August will most likely be Battle of Britian, so Hurri 1's  and Spit 1's.  Hmmm 

So as I see it, G3-MF will have at least 7 straight months Allied. Last I checked we were NOT a "dedicated" squad.   Used to be in FSO there was a time you were rotated at least once every 3-4 months like it or not.   Just another feature of FSO that has been lost.

My logic anymore concerning sides and rides is simple.   Plan on always being allied, even though I HATE red star planes, that is just a reality. 

That said, when I see a setup that WOWS me, and I want a switch.....  We should get it, as should anyone else who rolls with the flow to do their part of being an team player so all involved get to enjoy their Friday nights even when they know they are the underdog.


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I guess that would be me at the moment.

I don't think side preference is useless at all, every Admin CM uses it to the best of their ability, otherwise it would be a free-for-all.

Each Admin has their own way of doing splits. Personally, I look at the theater and place squads who are dedicated to rides in that theater. So if it's Pacific, VF-17 and G3-MF are automatically getting USN since we don't get the chance to run many events with Blue Planes. If it is Eastern Front, 9GIAP gets VVS, without question. Then, I look at any historical squads. Are there P-47s in the setup? 56th FG goes on the side with the Jugs. This is not to say I am favoring those squads, but I would find it unfair to put a squad who's historical ride is in the event, on the other side even though I could help it.

Next, I move onto squads who have updated for the month (if they haven't already been taken care of). We do appreciate the squads who no-preference as it helps round everything out without having to upset people.

Fortunately, throughout the years we've had a number of dedicated Axis squads as more often than not the preferences favor the Allies, therefore everyone getting their preferred side has never been a huge problem, but it does become one from time to time. It's all fun and games until it's Late War Pacific time and everyone wants to fly Allied. :)

I think out of all the events I've Admin'd (which is not a lot mind you), only once or twice did I have to move a squad to a side they didn't want.

There are very few instances where more squads prefer to be Axis than Allied. This can be due to the setups, or just a squad looking for a change of scenery. It's a rarity, but you'll see KN request Allied from time to time.

Ultimately, Warloc is right. When it comes down to it, they are just preferences.
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Offline DubiousKB

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2019, 10:30:23 AM »
I relinquish my desire to have a specific ride in favor of someone actually spending time to create/manage FSO's.

Yes I love flying the P47, but I've also lit up the skies in Japanese fireworks err I mean planes...

It's funny to me to see the same people hold their breath and clank pots N pans together until they get there way... Especially when participation numbers are falling to an all time low.

So which is better, getting your favorite shiny aircraft and no enemy targets?  Or getting stuck with something you don't like and having to fight like hell?

I dunno, the discussion seems a little silly; but not without some valid points on updating ride preferences.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2019, 10:45:00 AM »
I wonder why we worry so much about the history so much as the action and the scrap.  Frankly the Pigs are here for the fight, not so much for the history (Axis vs. Allies).  Don't get me wrong, we are all buffs to some degree or another, but hell I could care less if both sides had the same exact airplanes and we were told that we were targeting each other mushroom factories in some alternate reality.  The Pigs would come out swinging just as hard.  Just my .02 cents
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2019, 10:52:17 AM »
I wonder why we worry so much about the history so much as the action and the scrap.  Frankly the Pigs are here for the fight, not so much for the history (Axis vs. Allies).  Don't get me wrong, we are all buffs to some degree or another, but hell I could care less if both sides had the same exact airplanes and we were told that we were targeting each other mushroom factories in some alternate reality.  The Pigs would come out swinging just as hard.  Just my .02 cents

Blasphemer.  :old:

Offline Drano

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2019, 11:24:43 AM »
I wonder why we worry so much about the history so much as the action and the scrap.  Frankly the Pigs are here for the fight, not so much for the history (Axis vs. Allies).  Don't get me wrong, we are all buffs to some degree or another, but hell I could care less if both sides had the same exact airplanes and we were told that we were targeting each other mushroom factories in some alternate reality.  The Pigs would come out swinging just as hard.  Just my .02 cents

Right? And as long as I don't run out of beer, what I'm flying won't bother me much. Priorities gentlemen!

I'll go back to dusributing P-38 parts afterward anyway. Generally until the beer runs out.


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Offline Squire

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2019, 02:27:23 PM »
Quote
Blasphemer

...and those that follow...to attack Pearl Harbor with the Luftwaffe shall be discarded...

-FSO rules addendum.
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Offline waystin2

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Offline Arlo

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2019, 02:35:46 PM »
...and those that follow...to attack Pearl Harbor with the Luftwaffe shall be discarded...

-FSO rules addendum.

Of course, we are all Animal House fans. :)

Heretic! ;)

Offline j500ss

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 06:51:21 PM »
I wonder why we worry so much about the history so much as the action and the scrap.  Frankly the Pigs are here for the fight, not so much for the history (Axis vs. Allies).  Don't get me wrong, we are all buffs to some degree or another, but hell I could care less if both sides had the same exact airplanes and we were told that we were targeting each other mushroom factories in some alternate reality.  The Pigs would come out swinging just as hard.  Just my .02 cents

I like where your head is at Waystin,  couldn't agree more on this point.  Years ago I asked Daddog why FSO didn't run more "what if's" for lack of better terminology.

He didn't really have an answer, other than immersion.   He told me to put one together,  and he would look and consider it.   Then he left the game.  So obviously it died.

I know there is a lot that has gone on behind the scenes in FSO the couple years, as well as in the CM world.   Not an easy task, but I know all of us @ G3 fully appreciate the effort.

Side pref are great, and I full well know not guaranteed.   I didn't update, because I had a sneaking suspicion a lot were going to want Axis, so I just let it be.   Allied was fine, but we will do whatever asked as we always have.

Of course, we are all Animal House fans. :)

Heretic! ;)

Germans?    Leave him go, he's on a roll  ;)

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Offline Arlo

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2019, 07:02:56 PM »
Germans?    Leave him go, he's on a roll  ;)

 :salute

And fans of 1941. :D


Offline perdue3

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2019, 07:41:08 PM »
I think the preferences discussion is very good and I hope that many, especially CO's, can take something away from this discussion. The main point here is that preferences and requests are just that, preferences and requests. They, unfortunately, do not mean that you will get that side or those aircraft. It is more difficult than many might think to balance the sides AND give squads what they want. Most of the time, someone will not get what they requested. Nineteen times out of twenty, that will be a squad that has to fly Axis. This is the first time in recent memory where some did not get Axis as requested.

Spikes summed it well for me. I give squads their dedicated side first, then move on to the other squads. Maybe this is not the best way of doing it? I know that 9GIAP wants VVS and I know that 56th FG wants jugs, so they will get those sides. In a situation like this one, is it fair to give all three dedicated Luftwaffe squads (JG 11, JG 54, Kommando Nowotny) Axis? In my opinion, it absolutely is. They are the first three names on the Axis board. Unless one of those request Allied, they should be given Luftwaffe by default; just as G3-MF and VF-17 are given USN and the US FG's (364th and 56th) are given US aircraft. These are dedicated squads. The situation changes when we have non-dedicated squads that have not received the side they requested multiple times in a row.

There really should be no reason why any squadron is not given the side they want more than twice in a row. Twice in a row is understandable because of numbers, campaign theater, etc. But, if a squad has been shafted, as it were, twice in a row they should get what they want the third time. The Admin's have the ability to see what was requested and that should not happen.

The what-if that was mentioned is an entirely different matter. I think, as a designer, it comes down to designer tastes. I like a very complex and accurate setup whereas others like it to be loose. I have some very strong opinions about what-if's in AH events that are not necessarily pertinent to this conversation. I will say that there are varying degrees of what-if. That may sound ridiculous, but allow me to explain. The committee designed Conquest at Casablanca was a what-if in many ways. For those of you that do not remember, this setup pitted the Vichy French against the Americans at Casablanca during Operation Torch. P-40F's (L) lifted from the USS Ranger and F4F's fought alongside them. Rabat was used as an airfield, as it was in the operation and Casablanca's largest Axis airfield was bombed and strafed by SBD's. Likewise, the port of Casablanca was bombed by SBD's. All of this actually happened. What makes it a what-if was the fact that the Vichy French had as many numbers as the Americans. In reality, there were about 20 serviceable aircraft that we have in AH or have a decent sub for. Also, the Vichy French bombers never attacked the CV group or the USS Massachusetts. So, the designers had to fictionalize some things to make the event an event.

This is going to be the case with many FSO's. Just last month, Frame 2 was complete and utter fiction. Frames 1 and 3 were simulated sorties of May 7 and 8, respectively. But, we have 3 frames in FSO, so I made some stuff up for objectives in Frame 2. But, this is a necessary evil and must be considered as very small shying from accuracy. Casablanca is a stretched event, whereas Coral Sea was pretty much spot on save one fictional frame. My point is, I have no problem with stretching actual battles and campaigns to make a fun and interesting event, à la Casablanca, but complete fiction (for three frames) I cannot condone. But, this is opinion and preference. It simply means that I will probably never design a USAF vs. RAF event. However, I would be open to Battle of France with subs for the French's best aircraft.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2019, 07:59:56 PM »
Keep up the good work FSO staff.  :cheers:

Offline waystin2

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2019, 07:28:32 AM »


Spikes summed it well for me. I give squads their dedicated side first, then move on to the other squads. Maybe this is not the best way of doing it? I know that 9GIAP wants VVS and I know that 56th FG wants jugs, so they will get those sides. In a situation like this one, is it fair to give all three dedicated Luftwaffe squads (JG 11, JG 54, Kommando Nowotny) Axis? In my opinion, it absolutely is. They are the first three names on the Axis board. Unless one of those request Allied, they should be given Luftwaffe by default; just as G3-MF and VF-17 are given USN and the US FG's (364th and 56th) are given US aircraft. These are dedicated squads. The situation changes when we have non-dedicated squads that have not received the side they requested multiple times in a row.


I am not sure I agree with this method of side sorting.  A side choice awarded because of a poorly chosen squad name or not specifying a favorite plane?  Now I agree with you on the dedication to keeping on obligations like updates, CIC duties, player numbers etc. as a barometer.  But not a squad name as a way of making this decision.  The Pigs would end up at the bottom of the heap every time right?  We basically will fly and die in anything but prefer fighters.  Besides we are not dedicated to either side as you can see we have flown both sides for years.   The "dedicated" squads need to rotate out of their comfort zones sometimes.  I thought this had happened in this setup at first but it was quickly and loudly corrected here in the forums.
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Ok side assignments one more time (looky here).
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2019, 09:25:23 AM »
I am not sure I agree with this method of side sorting.  A side choice awarded because of a poorly chosen squad name or not specifying a favorite plane?  Now I agree with you on the dedication to keeping on obligations like updates, CIC duties, player numbers etc. as a barometer.  But not a squad name as a way of making this decision.  The Pigs would end up at the bottom of the heap every time right?  We basically will fly and die in anything but prefer fighters.  Besides we are not dedicated to either side as you can see we have flown both sides for years.   The "dedicated" squads need to rotate out of their comfort zones sometimes.  I thought this had happened in this setup at first but it was quickly and loudly corrected here in the forums.

Well, the difference in non-dedicated squads and dedicated squads is that one is dedicated to a specific aircraft or theater and the other is not. So, if they model their squad after a certain squad in real life, why shouldn't they be able to represent that squad or one like it in events? You said yourself that you would fly and die in anything, well some squads prefer to fly and die in specific planes (FW 190's, La-7's, P-47's, etc.). Like I said, it may not be the best way to do it. Luckily, most squadrons are not dedicated squads. We have 18 squads and only 8 of them are attached to a specific theater/aircraft. Even then, they are spread out (3 Luftwaffe, 2 US Navy, 2 USAAF, 1 VVS), so never should there be a time where these squads are not given their dedicated side because of other squadron requests.

I see your point and it is certainly valid. But, I find it unfair to disallow Luftwaffe squadrons the Luftwaffe because there are only three of them. The same applies to the Navy, US, and VVS squads. But, if the community would like to see Luftwaffe squads rotated out of the Luftwaffe every now and then, we can entertain that I suppose.
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