Author Topic: Why bother?  (Read 23214 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #105 on: May 17, 2019, 01:59:25 PM »
As I said, Dale, its never quite good enough.  :D

(Funny how not one person in the discourse about how training films need to be incorporated into the game once said, "Oh, I didn't know HT added these. Well, good." Instead we immediately get "No, that's not good enough.")

 :old:

Because it isn't.  I've known the videos were there since they were posted.  IMO it's a bandaid.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2019, 02:05:28 PM »
Because it isn't.  I've known the videos were there since they were posted.  IMO it's a bandaid.

Wiley.

I find it rather disheartening, on a society level, that you guys feel the game needs that much minutia based beginner coddling when, in fact, it really doesn't. The tools are there. They don't even have to be searched for. And yes, this all started with forum dwellers asking for exactly what was already there .... then, when it became apparent such existed (to all but you, it seems) demanding more.  :aok

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #107 on: May 17, 2019, 02:14:14 PM »
I find it rather disheartening, on a society level, that you guys feel the game needs that much minutia based beginner coddling when, in fact, it really doesn't. The tools are there. They don't even have to be searched for. And yes, this all started with forum dwellers asking for exactly what was already there .... then, when it became apparent such existed (to all but you, it seems) demanding more.  :aok

Yeah yeah yeah.  Kids today.  The tools are there even without the videos.  It doesn't mean people are going to use them.  It's got to be as effortless as possible.  You can complain that people don't have the can-doitiveness to look through menus or watch Youtube videos on how to do it, or you can make it easier for them like most other games these days have.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #108 on: May 17, 2019, 02:21:42 PM »
Yeah yeah yeah.  Kids today.  The tools are there even without the videos.  It doesn't mean people are going to use them.  It's got to be as effortless as possible.  You can complain that people don't have the can-doitiveness to look through menus or watch Youtube videos on how to do it, or you can make it easier for them like most other games these days have.

Wiley.

When you log onto the game and the training videos boot right then and there (which they do) then it really doesn't get much easier, to be honest. All of them run about 3-4 minutes each and cover step-by-step how to play the game. It runs off the clipboard and has to be manually stopped by the player.

I'll say it, if nobody else will. Thanks, Dale, for incorporating that. It was actually ahead of the demand. But then, you're never really ahead of the demand when everyone decides they need to make an impact.

Offline waystin2

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #109 on: May 17, 2019, 02:23:33 PM »
I spent my first 3-4 months in Aces High building a 3 ring notebook full of stuff from Soda's site, the AH site, DokGonzo's site, and several other aerial combat related sites.  I actually nerded out on the genre, the game and the planes and vehicles.  In addition to my academic studies there was real life flight studies where I was getting clubbed to pieces by Muppets, Jokers, Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers and a whole list of other unsavory characters.  No one is going to watch a tutorial or have their hand held and have that sort of practical experience, plane knowledge, or muscle memory given to them in a short amount of time.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #110 on: May 17, 2019, 02:24:16 PM »
When you log onto the game and the training videos boot right then and there (which they do) then it really doesn't get much easier, to be honest. All of them run about 3-4 minutes each and cover step-by-step how to play the game. It runs off the clipboard and has to be manually stopped by the player.

I'll say it, if nobody else will. Thanks, Dale, for incorporating that. It was actually ahead of the demand. But then, you're never really ahead of the demand when everyone decides they need to make an impact.

Yeah, with the retention rate of new people logging in, clearly they're working.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #111 on: May 17, 2019, 02:26:59 PM »
Yeah, with the retention rate of new people logging in, clearly they're working.

Wiley.

How long do you recall these videos being incorporated into the clipboard map? We've been talking about the 'instant gratification' issue of the wrong generation, its starting to sound.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #112 on: May 17, 2019, 02:29:19 PM »
I spent my first 3-4 months in Aces High building a 3 ring notebook full of stuff from Soda's site, the AH site, DokGonzo's site, and several other aerial combat related sites.  I actually nerded out on the genre, the game and the planes and vehicles.  In addition to my academic studies there was real life flight studies where I was getting clubbed to pieces by Muppets, Jokers, Rolling Thunder, Claim Jumpers and a whole list of other unsavory characters.  No one is going to watch a tutorial or have their hand held and have that sort of practical experience, plane knowledge, or muscle memory given to them in a short amount of time.

:aok  It may have more to do with love of the game/genre versus lack of.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #113 on: May 17, 2019, 02:38:15 PM »
How long do you recall these videos being incorporated into the clipboard map? We've been talking about the 'instant gratification' issue of the wrong generation, its starting to sound.

It was not long after the Steam release, wasn't it?  So between 1 and 2 years?  How much time does it take for a 3 minute video to work?

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #114 on: May 17, 2019, 02:42:06 PM »
It was not long after the Steam release, wasn't it?  So between 1 and 2 years?  How much time does it take for a 3 minute video to work?

Wiley.

Perhaps you might oughta ask yourself if the supposed lack of training tools for new players was the culprit, after all?

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2019, 02:43:12 PM »
Perhaps you might oughta ask yourself if the supposed lack of training tools for new players was the culprit, after all?

When someone doesn't stick for more than a minute or two, what's your theory?

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline whiteman

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #116 on: May 17, 2019, 02:52:26 PM »
5 minutes, Iíve never downloaded any game and gave it less than 24 hours. I could even start to imagine what is going through someoneís head that only put in 5 minutes.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #117 on: May 17, 2019, 03:05:45 PM »
When someone doesn't stick for more than a minute or two, what's your theory?

Wiley.

Not that it hasn't been covered by more than a dozen souls on the forum so far. Pick one:


  • The new player really is used to a game that is not only instantly gratifying but one where they can excel at from day one.
  • They're just not that into old airplanes, man.
  • They check it out just long enough to see what it is then blow it off as not free to play or worth their time.
  • We aren't just a niche market, we are a selective player population.

I'm sorry if none of the above makes for an 'easy fix' like, say, an amazing interface being coded into the game by HT to help ADD kids learn to like Aces High. It may be more of a marketing call that needs to be honed to target more perspective players that fit the profile of the Aces High addict. We're older than most players. We like online dog-fighting games but we also like the mud moving aspect the GVer aspect and a few of us the ship operations aspect. Some of us even like WWII history and events. The true competition out there is slim, when you take into consideration the elements that make AH unique. The modeling, the plane set, the open arena format. Warbirds is still out there, right? WWIIonline? There should be active coaxing of both those populations. Possibly from World of ______, as well. Specific individuals that would likely fit in with our player population should be scoped out.

There is no miracle cure. It would take effort and would be a community wide thing. And yes, making sure new people have fun, friends and personal connection with the community in and out of game would be essential.

(I'm guessing this might not be what you hoped for .... in one way or another.)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2019, 03:23:13 PM »
Quote
but you guys seem to think that the main thing wrong with the game is how the other player flies whatever plane he's in. 

semp

Don't lump me in with players like Fugitive or violator who think forcing people to fly a certain way is the solution.  The way people fly isn't the problem with the game.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Wiley

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Re: Why bother?
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2019, 03:24:51 PM »
Not that it hasn't been covered by more than a dozen souls on the forum so far. Pick one:


  • The new player really is used to a game that is not only instantly gratifying but one where they can excel at from day one.
  • They're just not that into old airplanes, man.
  • They check it out just long enough to see what it is then blow it off as not free to play or worth their time.
  • We aren't just a niche market, we are a selective player population.

I'm sorry if none of the above makes for an 'easy fix' like, say, an amazing interface being coded into the game by HT to help ADD kids learn to like Aces High. It may be more of a marketing call that needs to be honed to target more perspective players that fit the profile of the Aces High addict. We're older than most players. We like online dog-fighting games but we also like the mud moving aspect the GVer aspect and a few of us the ship operations aspect. Some of us even like WWII history and events. The true competition out there is slim, when you take into consideration the elements that make AH unique. The modeling, the plane set, the open arena format. Warbirds is still out there, right? WWIIonline? There should be active coaxing of both those populations. Possibly from World of ______, as well. Specific individuals that would likely fit in with our player population should be scoped out.

There is no miracle cure. It would take effort and would be a community wide thing. And yes, making sure new people have fun, friends and personal connection with the community in and out of game would be essential.

(I'm guessing this might not be what you hoped for .... in one way or another.)

I never said it was a magic bullet, I'm just saying when you look at what happens in this game when you log in for the first time versus how most everything else in gaming in the last 5 years works when you log in for the first time, it doesn't look great.  To me, the interface and new guy experience are an identifiable thing that could easily be improved.

I agree with your last 3 bullet points are likely factors, especially it being a niche market.  I agree with whoever said it up thread, though.  The learning curve isn't much of a problem.  There's plenty of people willing to devote all kinds of time to a game if it grabs them.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11