Why bother?

[guncrasher]

got curious decided to download world of tanks again.  2 hours and I am still waiting for it to update and I have a fast connection.  tried to play ah but wot is taking most of my connection, it didnt look pretty.  even youtube skips most of the videos.  so sometime in the next hour I should be able to play wot.

of course I'll have to start at the bottom because i havent played for like 3 years and all my tanks are probably obsolete by now.  I'll let you guys know how it goes sometime in the next 2 hours.


semp

[guncrasher]

Played wot about 10 battles, same as I remember, everybody rushes to shoot as much as they can without regards to strategy.  5 minutes battles are over.

yup, so much better game.

semp

[Shuffler]

I tried wot. I thought it sucked.

[whiteman]

There was nothing enjoyable about 5 minute match’s with zero strategy. Kill as many as you can to grind the equipment tree, repeat the process. I like the open sandbox where I can can do what I want as I please without the prototype make believe aircraft. There are things that could change here but the overall product is more appealing to me.

[ACE]

I tried wot. I thought it sucked.

Same.


The only thing I think that could be adjusted is ENY value and perked rides. That’s a solid way to effect gameplay. I don’t know exactly how to implement it but I feel it’s the right direction.

[Wiley]

The company that publishes that game takes advantage of those numbers every day.

So does Blizzard with World of Warcraft.  My point is, the majority of the people who are playing those games are not a ready-made set of people who would just pop over into an open-world giant arena PvP game.  There's a big difference between people who will play round after round of WT for 20 minutes at a time and people who want to look at a map and figure out what to do for their play session.

What do you consider "polish"?  Graphics?  I think the current graphics are actually quite nice give the scale they have to support.

I personally don't think the graphics are a huge issue, but I do believe for the majority playing those other games, they don't care about the scale, all they see is "Other thing shiny.  This thing less shiny."

To me, new guy experience and ease of configuration are the elephant in the room.  A really excellent in game run through to get your basic controls, communication, and views set up I think is probably the biggest thing they could do to help get people into the game.  Mouse controls would be high on the list as well I guess although frankly I don't see how you make mouse and keyboard equal to a full HOTAS/pedals/VR setup.

Personally I wouldn't even bother trying to get/keep the people that want to have 5 fights in 10 minutes after upping.  Making the game something like that isn't going to happen without completely restructuring the game.  Maybe more varied town/field layouts to work with would be a plus.

Beyond that, more vehicles.  Fill out the planeset with more stuff that can be used in FSO and scenarios.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

Mouse controls would be high on the list as well I guess although frankly I don't see how you make mouse and keyboard equal to a full HOTAS/pedals/VR setup.

Which is why I suggested a separate mouse optimized arena.  According to Hitech's data, up to 3000 people a month try AH that don't have a joystick.  75% of them don't stay 30 min.  Of course I was just jumped on by the usual NO-Police. 

Beyond that, more vehicles.  Fill out the planeset with more stuff that can be used in FSO and scenarios.

More vehicles might help.  I'm not against more planes, but we have a huge plane set.  I can't see how one more obscure Italian fighter would bring in hundreds of new players.

[Wiley]

Which is why I suggested a separate mouse optimized arena.  According to Hitech's data, up to 3000 people a month try AH that don't have a joystick.  75% of them don't stay 30 min.  Of course I was just jumped on by the usual NO-Police. 


More vehicles might help.  I'm not against more planes, but we have a huge plane set.  I can't see how one more obscure Italian fighter would bring in hundreds of new players.

One might not.  A few might, depending on what new possibilities they opened up for FSO/scenarios.  Not so much bring in, but might bring back if it got the scenario scene hopping.

My only issue with a mouse arena is, it doesn't improve the MA.  May as well be a different game.

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

One might not.  A few might, depending on what new possibilities they opened up for FSO/scenarios.  Not so much bring in, but might bring back if it got the scenario scene hopping.

I'm not against new planes, but they probably represent a very large investment of effort for all the 3d work involved, etc.   In a perfect world, you would have any plane you ever saw a reference to in any WWII history no matter how arcane.  In the real world you have to weigh the large expenditure of labor cost vs the benefit.  How many planes in the current hangar almost never get flown, at least in the melee?  The majority?  What other work has to be forgone while you do that?

My only issue with a mouse arena is, it doesn't improve the MA.  May as well be a different game.

So, I think a lot of the disconnect between us is that what you are saying is from your point of view what you want as a customer.  What "you" want.  What "you" like.  That is completely valid.  You are a customer.

A lot of what I talk about isn't necessarily always what "I" want or what "I" like as a customer.  A lot of what I suggest is from a pure mercenary business point of view what I think HTC might need to do to remain solvent for another decade.  There is only so long they can last with the same 1500 old toothless geezers that have been around since 1999 without adding new players.  I say that as a proud toothless geezer.   

I would never fly in a mouse-only arena, but 85% of the people who try AH don't have a joystick and don't stay 30 min.  I'd like to see HTC capture some of that potential revenue so they can go on another decade hosting FSO, Historical Scenarios, and the finest hi-fidelity WWII simulation on the market.

But you have to be able to pay the light bill. 
 

[Wiley]

I'm not against new planes, but they probably represent a very large investment of effort for all the 3d work involved, etc.   In a perfect world, you would have any plane you ever saw a reference to in any WWII history no matter how arcane.  In the real world you have to weigh the large expenditure of labor cost vs the benefit.  How many planes in the current hangar almost never get flown, at least in the melee?  The majority?  What other work has to be forgone while you do that?

So, I think a lot of the disconnect between us is that what you are saying is from your point of view what you want as a customer.  What "you" want.  What "you" like.  That is completely valid.  You are a customer.

A lot of what I talk about isn't necessarily always what "I" want or what "I" like as a customer.  A lot of what I suggest is from a pure mercenary business point of view what I think HTC might need to do to remain solvent for another decade.  There is only so long they can last with the same 1500 old toothless geezers that have been around since 1999 without adding new players.  I say that as a proud toothless geezer.   

I would never fly in a mouse-only arena, but 85% of the people who try AH don't have a joystick and don't stay 30 min.  I'd like to see HTC capture some of that potential revenue so they can go on another decade hosting FSO, Historical Scenarios, and the finest hi-fidelity WWII simulation on the market.

But you have to be able to pay the light bill. 
 

Why not just make a microtransaction idle game then?  Why try to shoehorn AH, which has proven to be less than widely popular, into something it isn't?

Wiley.

[atlau]

Regarding the mouse only arena... how many other flight aims (not arcade games) have a playable mouse mode? I cant even takeoff flying with a mouse. It is beyond my comprehension how lazer can do it. Unless hes fooling us all!

[CptTrips]

Why not just make a microtransaction idle game then?  Why try to shoehorn AH, which has proven to be less than widely popular, into something it isn't?

Wiley.

First, when suggesting a separate mouse-only arena, I am not suggesting any changes to the current melee arena.  I am instead talking about adding additional content that would appeal more to the mouse users. 

What ever changes you would like to see in the melee or don't want the see in the melee are a separate issue.

For what ever reason, AH is currently seeing traffic of ~3000 mouse-only users a month that have downloaded the game and have tried it but not stayed more than 30 min.  From a business side of things, I see that as a potential revenue stream that should be tapped.  I was suggesting a way you might could try and access that revenue  without having to make undue compromises in the regular melee. 

You may or may not get that traffic with a new game, but you are getting that traffic here.  I just think would be nice to monetize that opportunity if you could do so without breaking the main product.

If it didn't dumb down the melee, why would you be against a mouse-only arena?  Why would you be against HTC grabbing some of that revenue if they can?   The vast majority of work needed to support that has already been done.  The pieces are mostly all there, they just need to be put together with a little glue coad.

[Wiley]

For what ever reason, AH is currently seeing traffic of ~3000 mouse-only users a month that have downloaded the game and have tried it but not stayed more than 30 min.  From a business side of things, I see that as a potential revenue stream that should be tapped.  I was suggesting a way you might could try and access that revenue  without having to make undue compromises in the regular melee.

It's assuming an awful lot to say a mouse only arena would catch them.  IMO it's a combination of not what they're looking for and the new guy experience again. 

Wiley.

[CptTrips]

It's assuming an awful lot to say a mouse only arena would catch them.  IMO it's a combination of not what they're looking for and the new guy experience again. 

Wiley.

There is no guarantee it would, but it would be an attempt to do so that might be justified if it could be done with a reasonable amount of effort and without degrading the main melee arena. 

The only guarantee is that the current approach is NOT capturing any of those 3000 mouse-only users.

I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.

[Wiley]

There is no guarantee it would, but it would be an attempt to do so that might be justified if it could be done with a reasonable amount of effort and without degrading the main melee arena. 

The only guarantee is that the current approach is NOT capturing any of those 3000 mouse-only users.

I just don't understand the hostility to even making the attempt.

Simply put, let's say HT puts in the effort.  New guy logs in, sees

Melee arena (89/1000)
Mouse Only Arena(5/1000)

Was it worth it?  If a change can't be integrated into the MA, a side arena is unlikely to be able to hit critical mass for fun.  Heck, depending what people are up to, sometimes the MA doesn't hit critical mass for fun for people in the air.

Wiley.